2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Minions]

Happens every single election. Unless the entire primary system is taken out of the hands of the parties themselves then its going to continue to happen.

[archibaldcrane]

I took it more as just another example of the inherent "corruption" in the system. When you're already winning to the degree that Hillary is, is it really necessary for her supporters to pull this kind of shit? It just further aggravates the people you want supporting her come the general.

Are you saying they should have allowed non-Democrats to be delegates at the Democratic convention?

[Krandor]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I don't think you can argue that the whole thing was pretty poorly handled.

[kisada]

the bunk got into a fight with a sanders supporter

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...e-sanders.html

i don't give a shit who was right, i was pretty glad to hear he wasn't a trump guy lol

[Greatguardian]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I don't think you can argue that the whole thing was pretty poorly handled.

Is there a good way to handle anything that results in a net benefit for Hillary?

[archibaldcrane]

Is there a good way to handle anything that results in a net benefit for Hillary?

Bernie would be running away with the nomination if it weren't for the corrupt DNC and the millions more voters who support her.

[kisada]

Bernie would be running away with the nomination if it weren't for the corrupt DNC and the millions more voters who support her.

you mean the voters who support her but either can't legally vote or can't get their ass off the couches to vote, right

[archibaldcrane]

you mean the voters who support her but either can't legally vote or can't get their ass off the couches to vote, right

Wut

[Byrthnoth]

Naw, he means that Hillary has a 3 million popular vote lead over Bernie that proportionally exceeds the non-super delegate disparity. AKA Bernie is nominally being helped by the delegate allocation rules, except for the fact that we have superdelegates to correct for such candidates.

Hillary/Bernie-
Delegates (without super): 1716/1433 = 1.20 = Hillary is up by 20%
Popular vote: 12.5/9.4 million = 1.33 = Hillary is up by 33%
Delegates (with super): 2240/1473 = 1.52 = Hillary is up by 52%

So Bernie mathematically needs superdelegates (the endorsement of the democrat establishment) to win, but that would be in defiance of the will of the people and would run pretty contrary to his campaign's tone. I'm not saying they're not trying to do that, but it's fairly hypocritical for an "outsider candidate" who is concerned with all these populist ideals to try and game the system when he's losing the popular vote.

[Sho]

Bernie was going to game the system either way. There was no turning back as soon as he became a candidate. He just isn't doing it in an ostentatious or overt fashion.

[Quicklet]

I think it's rich when people act like Sanders shouldn't try to win using the rules given how stacked the process has been for Hillary from the start.

[Tyche]

I think it's rich when people act like Sanders shouldn't try to win using the rules given how stacked the process has been for Hillary from the start.

She's winning by 2 million votes. How is it stacked? It's really simple, when the demographics are old and non-white, Clinton wins. When the demographics are young and white, Sanders wins. So, if by stacked, you mean the democratic base is made up of a ton of non-white minority voters who aren't voting for the old white man, then sure, it's stacked.

[Gredival]

you mean the voters who support her but either can't legally vote or can't get their ass off the couches to vote, right

Wut

It's a joke based off the recent Berner rhetoric that Bernie would be running away with the nomination if the poor voted because non-voters are so far to the left that they could realign the country on the political spectrum if they just participated.

It, like all Bernie arguments, completely ignores the fact that we have to deal with reality.

[Gredival]

I think it's rich when people act like Sanders shouldn't try to win using the rules given how stacked the process has been for Hillary from the start.

No the issue is blatant doublespeak. You can't talk about how superdelegates are against the will of the people and that you should get superdelegates proportionate to your share of the primary vote when what you really need is superdelegates to support you disproportionate to the "will of the people" in order to overcome the popular vote gap.

It's fine to win on the back of the superdelegates over the popular vote (Obama did this) just as long as you are self-aware of that reality. It's not fine when you soapbox about egalitarianism and representation.

[Quicklet]

She's winning by 2 million votes. How is it stacked? It's really simple, when the demographics are old and non-white, Clinton wins. When the demographics are young and white, Sanders wins. So, if by stacked, you mean the democratic base is made up of a ton of non-white minority voters who aren't voting for the old white man, then sure, it's stacked.

Not talking directly about voting totals. I'm referring to things like scheduling so few debates early on and putting them at terrible times, and shit like the DNC locking the Sanders campaign out of access to their own voter database and claiming they tried to steal Clinton's information with questionable evidence of that. People who pay attention take notice of those actions and it reflects poorly on the party.

No the issue is blatant doublespeak. You can't talk about how superdelegates are against the will of the people and that you should get superdelegates proportionate to your share of the primary vote when what you really need is superdelegates to support you disproportionate to the "will of the people" in order to overcome the popular vote gap.

It's fine to win on the back of the superdelegates over the popular vote (Obama did this) just as long as you are self-aware of that reality. It's not fine when you soapbox about egalitarianism and representation.

Given that your candidate is the queen of doublespeak, I'm not sure what your problem with this is. This is how politics works, isn't it?

[Gredival]

Given that your candidate is the queen of doublespeak, I'm not sure what your problem with this is. This is how politics works, isn't it?

Being a poll chameleon isn't quite the same as doublespeak. But you missed the point.

I already literally said it's okay to win over the will of the people through the superdelegates. I have no problem with that. The problem is when do it while simultaneously runing your campaign on the principle of being cleaner, of being egalitarian, etc.

It's the same thing with Bernie's campaign finance violations. I don't have a problem with "dirty" money; it's not about the money being dirty, it's that the money is dirty while Bernie tries to swindle voters by claiming he's clean.

You want to fight at our level, that's fine, just admit you're doing it. When you claim moral high ground, you hold yourself to a higher standard. So it's especially bad when you can't meet that standard.

[Cjskater]

the bunk got into a fight with a sanders supporter

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...e-sanders.html

i don't give a shit who was right, i was pretty glad to hear he wasn't a trump guy lol

But does she disavow!?

Spoiler: show

I'm glad for a different reason than you, I get to make fun of violent Hillary supporters now too.

[Zealot]

Man, if only for these dozens of reasons he's losing, Bernie would be running away with it.

[Byrthnoth]

Ugh! Obviously his populist rhetorical hypocrisy is justified because a lot of people just don't know what is good for them. If only they would read his website!!!

[Ragnus]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but when have independent delegates ever been a problem with the DNC in the past?