2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Krandor]

It also, you know, doesn't actually matter.

[Ksandra]

Angela Davis is probably fucking ecstatic to be associated with a woman that goes against everything she stands for, as well as the prospect of being arrested for being an activist in the BDS movement in the near future.

You are just the worst.

It's a historic moment whether you, Angela, or anyone else likes it or not. Denying it is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and actually hurts the feminist movement. I'm not even a feminist because of boohoo shit, but this is actual good progress for women. This is exactly the type of shit women should be proud of.

[Day]

I still vividly remember ole turkey neck saying marriage is between a man and a woman. Now she's the champion for minorities and LBGT. XD

[Krandor]

I enjoyed the video the_Donald was spreading around this week of her in 2006 talking about deporting the illegals and needing to build a "physical barrier" at the border.

[Dotsudoku]

I still vividly remember ole turkey neck saying marriage is between a man and a woman. Now she's the champion for minorities and LBGT. XD

remember that time you posted a heartbroken rant about how politics brings out the worst in people, wondering why you were marginalized as just another berniebro?

maybe it was because you say stupid shit like this

[Zealot]

Okay I'm tired of this ad hom. You talk about how no one else here has protested anything of significance in their comfortable lives. What civil rights organizations or causes have you worked for or volunteered for on a full time basis? Not attending an Occupy or BLM and saying shit is broken. What specific pieces of legislation have you ever tried to get through or overturned?

And don't count working on a campaign unless you worked in the office afterwards. I'm asking about actual governance not herding the vote.

Working for Congress has been a highlight of my life. I've personally worked on legislation and helped write bills to overturn the dishonorable discharges of gay servicemen and women and release the appropriations restrictions on the ATF preventing them from enforcing gun laws. I also tried to prevent the Rio Tinto mine from being opened in Arizona, but that piece of graft was pushed through in budget negotiations to keep the government open. I also tried to stop those cuts to SNAP that happened in 2014.

It's pretty cool working for DoJ as well, but it lacks the urgency of work on the Hill. I'm up for a position at the FBI, we'll see how that pans out.

I'm also with bum on one thing - I've volunteered for some campaigns and I'll probably never do it again. I hate phonebanking more than anything.

[Zealot]

I still vividly remember ole turkey neck saying marriage is between a man and a woman. Now she's the champion for minorities and LBGT. XD

It baffles me whenever people on the left get enraged over Hillary flip-flopping when she only ever flops further left.

[kisada]

Doesn't baffle me. Just reveals how fucking moronic those people are

[Marootsoobutsu]

Okay I'm tired of this ad hom. You talk about how no one else here has protested anything of significance in their comfortable lives. What civil rights organizations or causes have you worked for or volunteered for on a full time basis? Not attending an Occupy or BLM and saying shit is broken. What specific pieces of legislation have you ever tried to get through or overturned?

And don't count working on a campaign unless you worked in the office afterwards. I'm asking about actual governance not herding the vote.

Between that little quip of his, and his further explanation of where he falls on the spectrum, I've just stopped paying attention. He makes me sad, not angry. He's very clearly full of anger, and rage. Passionate, but so much so that he's lost his ability to interact meaningfully on the issues he cares about. Perhaps the rage and anger are justified; I don't know his full life story. I mean, I'm willing to listen, but right now? On the track Bum's on? Its bile and rancor drive me further away from his purpose, not closer toward it. It's not legitimate politics he talks. It's a deep well of hurt that just doesn't know to not bite the hands trying to comfort it.

[Dotsudoku]

Doesn't baffle me. Just reveals how fucking moronic those people are

pretty sure Day's not a moron. Don't even care that he's one of many that doesn't understand the difference between an evolving stance and a flipflop. But people who whine about not being taken seriously in the discussion and only stop by to post ill informed quips and make fun of an old lady's neck are, to use his words, insufferable

[notorious bum]

Ironically, much of my freetime is spent with peeps positively reflecting on the path forward. I often hear of them making genuine progress in-terms of the feedback gotten in the last 5 years or so. This is coming from teachers, student groups, organizers, artists, etc. I look at all of these titles as contributing positions to the future of our society, not just those willing to bust ass in a corrupt system.

The subset of the population who feels it is enough to elect a vagina and fawn over the continuation of a dynasty that profits, literally and ideologically, from the propping up of dictators, silencing dissent, and wealth inequality (BernBro buzzword!) is a facade only continued by the political elite and career pundits who stand to gain upward momentum for themselves.

Much of this conversation about my position in the fight for real social justice was already mentioned with the Chris Hedges article I posted.

[notorious bum]

Forgot to post my regular Hill-bashing link from the intercept today. The header image is A+

Hillary Clinton's State Dept. gave South Sudan's military a pass for its child soldiers.
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/09/...hild-soldiers/

[Serra]

I bet you could write a killer article about how Hillary can't be a supporter of women's rights since the State Department sold weapons to Saudi Arabia.

[Krandor]

Well women are the primary victims of war and by providing arms she was inciting war so thus Hillary hates women because she caused them so much pain.

[archibaldcrane]

It's almost as if we live in a messed up world filled with imperfect choices.

[kuronosan]

pretty sure Day's not a moron. Don't even care that he's one of many that doesn't understand the difference between an evolving stance and a flipflop. But people who whine about not being taken seriously in the discussion and only stop by to post ill informed quips and make fun of an old lady's neck are, to use his words, insufferable

Let's not get carried away here. While there is a difference between evolution of thought and flipping of flops, don't kid yourself into thinking Hillary is always 100% evolved on things.

In this case, this is why I go to her record to see exactly what happened and why the hate is there. Two things I found out:

1) She has never been in large favor of same-sex marriage until she started campaigning in 2013-2014, when "everyone else was doing it"

2) To her credit, she HAS been a large advocate of gay rights - all inclusive EXCEPT marriage

So for Hillary, her evolution would have had to have been eventually understanding that gay marriage was inevitable. The troubling part is that until everyone else believed it, she didn't. That's hard to distinguish between flop and flaw because of the timing. Only she can say, I guess.

But what I look for in a leader is someone who is ahead of the pack and knows where to take the country - not someone who sees where the country is going and then declares it was the right way to go. Leaders can be retrospective under the right circumstances but hardly is this characteristic of "FORWARD WITH HILLARY LOL". It's one of the main reasons I don't like her.

But, having read her policies, discussed it with Archie, and obviously doing my own research, I have to say that if you're voting against Hillary just because Bernie isn't getting the nomination you are doing everyone else injustice. You aren't "sticking it to the dems" by protest voting a third party. You're hurting your fellow citizens who are going to suffer through 4-8 years of crap because you want to change the world.

What people who DIEHARD Bernie are failing to see, and is a large part of the reason for my evolution on the subject, is that it's total anti-Bernie belief that you should crash everything down when you don't get your way. You should be working to change the system (incremental change) so that you can change the way it works (real change).

Problem is people stomp their feet and we get deadlocked Congress that does jack shit, so incremental change takes forever. Well, I'm not satisfied with a Hillary presidency and contrary to what Ksandra thinks I don't find it at all to be historic or meaningful because there are probably FAR better female-empowering leaders who aren't saddled with questionable ethics and decisions that are better role models. That being said, what she has done from a positive standpoint should indicate to ANYONE out there that voting against is quite possibly the dumbest fucking thing you could do.

[Ragnus]

Bum... just... stop. Seriously. I can't believe I'm agreeing with Archi on something like this, but there's reasons why there are whole course catalogs on International Politics. The world is fucked up and full of choices that carry really fucked up consequences no matter what you take.

[kuronosan]

BUT THE AVENGERS DESTROYED SOKOVIA

[Ragnus]

No, no. Tony Stark destroyed Sorkovia by making Ultron.

[Serra]

Just that one city.