2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[archibaldcrane]

Supposedly Hillary's VP shortlist has leaked:

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/16/1195487...ent-veepstakes

[zoobernut]

Interesting article. I will have to read it later. One thing I noticed though that I never noticed before. Democrats from Ohio are labeled D-OH lol made me think of Homer.

[notorious bum]

This is fucking pathetic. How about we talk about the real juicy story, eh?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...=NYDailyNewsTw

[Melena]

Well being that everyone was saying Hilary was going to get the democratic nod for at least the last year or two, it's no surprise people in the DNC felt the same as well. No one predicated Sanders would join the democratic ticket and run against her.

[Krandor]

At the time of the memo his campaign might not even have been official, since it's dated the same day he fully announced it.

Also, duh?

[notorious bum]

If this is the breadcrumbs of the leak, what would it take for people to be "outraged" with the DNC?

[Greatguardian]

Since when have parties been unbiased? Like, was that ever an assumption going in? Do people just not pay any attention in civics class these days?

[Melena]

A lot more than a year ago assuming Clinton was going to be the nominee which was pretty much the worst kept secret for 2+ years after she left her cabinet post and Republicans tried to blame her for everything. Hell people blame her for the fucking Arab Spring uprising because she was secretary of state at the time.

[Krandor]

Both major parties have realistically been fucked in some capacity for years.

And finding out that the party favored the candidate who had like 500 super delegates the second she announced shouldn't be that surprising.

[notorious bum]

It's not a surprise to anyone here, obviously, but it's still pretty funny to see their shit get put on-blast when voters are already agitated this election. I hope this box of kettlecorn in my cabinet gets used when Wikileaks dumps the rest.

[archibaldcrane]

John McCain is the top trender on twitter right now and is getting universally dragged. Hope this is the beginning of the end.

I can't believe he fucking endorsed Trump after the shit Trump said about him getting captured. Nothing Paul Ryan does could be as embarrassing as that.

[notorious bum]

Hey, don't wish death on John McCain. It will never happen.

[Salodin]

Do you feel that party leaders aren't allowed to have a favorite? Especially if for the entire Obama presidency it's been assumed that said favorite would run unopposed next cycle? The day Obama went in office any one who's been paying attention should have known Hillary was next, and she's been working on it way longer than Bernie. It shows.

[Greatguardian]

It's not a surprise to anyone here, obviously, but it's still pretty funny to see their shit get put on-blast when voters are already agitated this election. I hope this box of kettlecorn in my cabinet gets used when Wikileaks dumps the rest.

That's not my point. You're still acting like we know that parties are biased because we "know the parties are rotten." My point is that parties were never meant to be unbiased in the first place, and it's these misplaced expectations that seem to be getting people all up in a tizzy.

People seem to think these organizations exist in order to help convey the will of the people up the chain. They don't. The only constitutional mechanism for that is actual voting. Parties exist to get like-minded individuals elected in order to work towards a common goal within the system. Most of the time, that requires a fair bit of compromise even within an organization. It also means these organizations will do whatever is both legal and necessary to increase their influence in the system. Sometimes this means telling a candidate to run when they don't necessarily want to. Sometimes it means telling a candidate to sit down and not run when they do. Sometimes it means distributing funds away from lost causes or long shots and towards closer fights. The Democratic party will do whatever it thinks will increase the influence of Democrats at the state, local, and federal levels.

This is how parties work. This is how parties are supposed to work. Just because people largely ignored their high school government teacher and decided to make up some ideal fantasy version of the US political system for use in their own heads is a poor excuse for getting all pissy when reality chooses not to accommodate them.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah, I don't know why the DNC wouldn't be more impartial to Bernie Sanders, the guy who openly called for a primary challenge to Obama in 2012 and became a member of the party 7 months ago.

[notorious bum]

That's not my point. You're still acting like we know that parties are biased because we "know the parties are rotten." My point is that parties were never meant to be unbiased in the first place, and it's these misplaced expectations that seem to be getting people all up in a tizzy.

People seem to think these organizations exist in order to help convey the will of the people up the chain. They don't. The only constitutional mechanism for that is actual voting. Parties exist to get like-minded individuals elected in order to work towards a common goal within the system. Most of the time, that requires a fair bit of compromise even within an organization. It also means these organizations will do whatever is both legal and necessary to increase their influence in the system. Sometimes this means telling a candidate to run when they don't necessarily want to. Sometimes it means telling a candidate to sit down and not run when they do. Sometimes it means distributing funds away from lost causes or long shots and towards closer fights. The Democratic party will do whatever it thinks will increase the influence of Democrats at the state, local, and federal levels.

This is how parties work. This is how parties are supposed to work. Just because people largely ignored their high school government teacher and decided to make up some ideal fantasy version of the US political system for use in their own heads is a poor excuse for getting all pissy when reality chooses not to accommodate them.

You can spare me the condescending "grown up citizen" vomit. I know how to obey the rules, too.

[Greatguardian]

You can spare me the condescending "grown up citizen" vomit. I know how to obey the rules, too.

Right. Because that's the goal. To obey the rules.

Listen, bro. It's one thing to sit around in circles and bitch about the way you want things to be, but the reality on the ground is that in order to effect meaningful change in a system you have to first understand how that system works and why it was made to work that way. Charging in with nothing more than your personal ideal of how you think the system should work is only going to result in people treating you like a spoiled child.

[notorious bum]

Right. Because that's the goal. To obey the rules.

Listen, bro. It's one thing to sit around in circles and bitch about the way you want things to be, but the reality on the ground is that in order to effect meaningful change in a system you have to first understand how that system works and why it was made to work that way. Charging in with nothing more than your personal ideal of how you think the system should work is only going to result in people treating you like a spoiled child.

Fascinating. You are making textbook arguments I have never heard before. I should've been paying attention in my poli sci classes instead of reading Howard Zinn, probably.

[zoobernut]

Forgive me but I forgot all my civis/polisci classes from years ago. In what ways are the political parties regulated? Do they have to follow certain rules? Do they have to allow people to vote at all for their candidates?

[Krandor]

Do they have to allow people to vote at all for their candidates?

Technically, no. We saw it partially this year with the RNC when Cruz was awarded a bunch of delegates in states that just decided not to have any primaries.