2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Greatguardian]

You guys are reading too much into my comments. All I'm saying is that if the donors were the reason Warren didn't get picked, that could be a problem for Democratic unity either during the election or afterward. A lot of people will be pissed if they feel like they were sold out so that Hillary could make some deals with Republicans that give billions of dollars in new tax breaks to corporations.

And how in the ever living fuck would you prove something like that? Do you think either Clinton or Warren is going to come out and say "We can't do this because Wall St?" It'd only be a problem if people make it a problem by buying in to this conspiracy theory nonsense before an announcement's even been made. And fyi there are plenty of good, progressive VP candidates out there besides Warren who can bring a lot more to the table (with a lot fewer downsides) than she can right now.

[Quicklet]

You're acting like shit doesn't get leaked to the press all the time...

[Xno Kappa]

You guys are reading too much into my comments. All I'm saying is that if the donors were the reason Warren didn't get picked, that could be a problem for Democratic unity either during the election or afterward. A lot of people will be pissed if they feel like they were sold out so that Hillary could make some deals with Republicans that give billions of dollars in new tax breaks to corporations.

You can't prove shit whether she did or didn't for those reasons. Like I said, you and the article are just trying to preemptively insert a narrative by going all Glenn Beck-like "I'm just asking questions!" Say it enough times and the usual sheep will believe it.

It's a genuinely dishonest discussion and you know it.

[Greatguardian]

No. I'm acting like someone who's getting real sick of portions of his party insisting there's a corporate shadow illuminati out to get them any time things don't go their way. I'm sick of people insisting the only way Bernie could possibly lose the primary is because voters were suppressed or voting machines were hacked or brown people were brainwashed because us poor, uneducated chronic victims don't have the wherewithal to vote for the person we think will do the most good for us and the country.

And this? This is beyond the pale. This is preparing the next r/pol shitstorm before an announcement's even happened. Warren hasn't even lost VP yet and people are already out to paint Hillary as corrupt in the off chance she decides someone else is a better fit for the position. Fuck. Sanders has managed to tap into Tea Party levels of insanity and it's heartbreaking because we all know how well that shit played out for the GOP.

[Quicklet]

That's absurd. That you are automatically dismissing the potential influence of wealthy donors on Hillary's campaign is disappointing. You really don't think Warren wouldn't know if she were excluded from VP because the donors didn't want her?

Also this isn't even about Sanders so I don't know why you're bringing him up.

[Rooney]

Because while there are always the tinfoil hat people, Sanders has brought-in or created an excessively large number of them compared to past elections.

[Andalusian girls]

while Warren is not the slamdunk no brainer the far left views her as you guys may be overly critical of her prospects as vice president. Warren is the third largest celebrity in the Democratic party, is an eager and effective attack dog, would double down on Hillary's unprecedented success with more x chromosomes thereby exacerbating Trump's issues with women, and, most importantly, after Sanders is the most popular progressive in the county. there is some quantity of Sanders's base that continues to reject Hillary and the enthusiasm for her campaign remains very low among younger voters, a vital Democratic voting bloc. she represents the easiest way to unify the party schism.

that said the Democratic party is a broad coalition and widespread dissatisfaction with Trump (alongside Hillary's aggressive foreign policy and general defense of capitalism) means moderate conservatives will be in play. Warren is another old white woman in a party that is young and diverse, and for the prospects of not only this current election but for those of the future a Latino candidate could serve to consolidate the Democratic hold around that large and growing constituency (Castro, Perez), or a black candidate (Booker) could help ensure that demographic's turnout does not decline with their historic first no longer in the contest. alternatively she could court anti-Trump conservatives with one of the few remaining bluedog Democrats in the party (Kaine) and confirm all the Bernie Bros's's worst fears by shifting back towards the center for the general. additionally there are always the considerations of where the candidate is from, a popular hometown child of a battleground state is ideal, and simple personal chemistry. this individual will be working as a subordinate in Hillary's administration for the next 4-8 years and given her shall we say understandable fixation on loyalty and secrecy she is unlikely to select someone she does not feel she can trust or control.

and as always it ought be remembered the pick for vice president usually always has a small and non-determinant impact on the race.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/th...rticle/2594317

Uncle Tom doesn't want to be on the Court without Scalia and is considering retirement after election.

one of my favorite things in life is condescending liberals mocking black conservatives by calling them an Uncle Tom when Tom was the Christ-like protagonist of the novel who was murdered by Master Legree because he refused to reveal to where the runaway slaves had escaped.

[Xno Kappa]

It's not whether or not she'd be a credible VP pick, it's the berniebros already building a case to justify a childish temper tantrum if they don't get their way.

[Andalusian girls]

predefining the reason for Warren's prospective non-nomination as the result of big money is admittedly a puerile simplification, but progressives have every right to be furious if Hillary does not select one of their own and instead trends towards the center. the mobilized en masse for the Bernie insurgency, helping him achieve results no one expected, and in doing so demonstrated their power within the party. to be neglected at this stage-

but there is of course no candidate who will appeal in equal measure to latinos, blacks, women, progressives, Ohioans, Virginians, Floridians, farleft progressives, and disillusioned Republicans. she will have to make a choice and while the vice presidential pick will very likely not effect the outcome of the race it is the first concrete decision that demonstrates where Hillary's priorities lie.

[Quicklet]

It's not whether or not she'd be a credible VP pick, it's the berniebros already building a case to justify a childish temper tantrum if they don't get their way.

Uhh except these are not Bernie people bringing this up. These are Hillary's own donors literally telling her campaign that if she picks Warren that the campaign cash is going to dry up.

[Andalusian girls]

there is a chasm between stating if Hillary doesn't pick Warren she cares more about her donors than the middle-class, and acknowledging Warren's incessant demonization of the financial sector for the entirety of her public life has to be a consideration during the vetting process given Hillary's political base is New York and she has generally been supportive of the critical role finance plays both there and nationally.

[Ksandra]

one of my favorite things in life is condescending liberals mocking black conservatives by calling them an Uncle Tom when Tom was the Christ-like protagonist of the novel who was murdered by Master Legree because he refused to reveal to where the runaway slaves had escaped.

The phrase Uncle Tom doesn't completely come from the original novel.

Edit: * completely was missing.

[notorious bum]

Chris Hedges gives a shout-out to all the liberals out there in his new piece "Con Vs Con":
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/con_vs_con_20160619

Liberals, as part of the quid pro quo with the establishment, serve as attack dogs to keep us within the deadly embrace of corporate capitalism.

Liberals are tolerated by the capitalist elites because they do not question the virtues of corporate capitalism, only its excesses, and call for tepid and ineffectual reforms.

Liberals denounce those who speak in the language of class warfare. They are the preferred group—because they claim liberal values—used by capitalist elites to demonize the left as irresponsible heretics.

[Byrthnoth]

Eight more years! Eight more years! (of Uncle Joe)

[Andalusian girls]

Bum i wonder what is your ideal system of economics. communism? anarcho-syndicalism?

[kuronosan]

It's clear at this point that Warren is the favorite for VP. Harry Reid wants her as VP. Bernie supporters would love her as VP. She's already shown herself to be effective in attacking Trump in a way that other picks would be unknowns. If she's not picked as VP it's hard to see how it's not over either this or not wanting to lose her Senate seat. I mean maybe you could argue that having two women on the ticket would be too much but that seems like such a nonsense argument to me.

Also, I'm pretty sure if Warren doesn't get picked and it's because of this, word will get back to her.

Bernie supporters actually feel betrayed by Warren, so no... That wouldn't do much except piss off supporters who wanted her to run for President and instead took a backseat to someone she has heavily criticized her entire career.

Personally, a Sanders or Warren VP would be awesome.

[notorious bum]

Public ownership of property, means of production, infrastructure, i.e. communism, as noted in a previous post re:Bernie's "socialist democrat" title.

[Greatguardian]

Bernie supporters actually feel betrayed by Warren, so no... That wouldn't do much except piss off supporters who wanted her to run for President and instead took a backseat to someone she has heavily criticized her entire career.

Personally, a Sanders or Warren VP would be awesome.

While Sanders has zero remaining chance at an effective legislative career in the senate (not that he had much of one to begin with), Warren is still a very powerful senator. The Vice President is in charge of NASA. It's a pretty big step down for her bar the obvious implication that it would set her up for a 2020 run.

It's the same with the governorship of Texas. It's a powerless, stripped down, do-nothing position that serves as little more than a launchpad for presidential runs.

[Andalusian girls]

the vice president has exactly as much power as the president desires them to have. Cheney was for a time the second most powerful man in Washington, Biden has had considerably less but still was probably more influential than any single senator.

[Gredival]

As an attorney I'm a little offended people want Justices they think will come down on their side of the issue instead of those who will interpret the law fairly and correctly.

As a JD, I understand the idea that the law is supposed to be impartial and that there were days in the court's history where jurisprudence wasn't a political matter.

However I think that the way in which political leanings are apparent or reflected within a Justice's jurisprudence is much more obvious today. When SCOTUS nominees are selected, sides clearly vet them according to their opinion on a few decisions (Roe v. Wade) and their judicial philosophy on the Constitution.

Although I clearly have an opinion on how to read and interpret the Constitution, I think the reason there are nine Justices is supposed to be so that different perspectives and methodologies can be reflected in decisions. Politically charged 5-4 decisions aside, we've seen strange bed fellows in decisions before (Breyer and Thomas as the two dissenters in the video game case was unique).

The problem is when Justices bend supposed rules of interpretation to suit agendas, which has clearly happened a few times. And I would say that the textualist Justices are much more frequently guilty of that.