2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Dotsudoku]

The excuse making for Clinton on this issue is pretty damn mind boggling. Had this been Trump every one of you would have been screaming for the towers.

Being old is no excuse. I don't care that it's been done before, she's running for the President of the United States. I actually expect something from our politicians. Sorry if that pisses people off.

you literally quoted me saying she isn't excused while telling me I'm making excuses for her



don't presume to know where my rationality begins or ends because you and your brood are incapable of the same

[Zealot]

I didn't say she considers herself above the law, I said that's the impression it gives, which is far more important during a big election.

[Krandor]

In related news, Clinton is doubling down and claims Comey is lying about her mishandling of classified materials.

[Dantrag]

you literally quoted me saying she isn't excused while telling me I'm making excuses for her



don't presume to know where my rationality begins or ends because you and your brood are incapable of the same

I apologize if it came off as directed at you(I know quotes do that...) but it was to everyone who was making it as an excuse. Again, sorry if that came off as a direct attack at you. It was directed at THAT form of defense. I don't want a POTUS in 2016 that can't take a week to learn about the internet and general security. Not that I want a biggot racist either... But fuck. these people need to learn something.

[ringthree]

I'm deeply annoyed at the whole situation. First for the FBI and DoJ for more or less admitting that politicians at Clinton's level will have the law applied differently, second for the Clinton campaign for being this ignorant about how to handle this scenario. The statute in question regarding sensitive material that she ostensibly violated carries with it either a fine or a maximum of 10 years imprisonment. All parties involved should have gone for the fine- there's nothing the government can come up with that the Clintons can't pay - and then Hillary could have gone in front of the public, apologized for mistakes made during her administration (without accepting blame), made a subtle reference to the fact that Bush-era Secretaries did the same thing without a word from Republicans, and then pledged a new era of security and accountability within the State Department and the entire government under her Presidency.

Instead it looks like she considers herself above the law, our law-making and law-enforcing apparatuses are complicit, and Trump has all of this to use against her. It's bad decision making and it's bad politics.

Actually, the opposite is true. Comey specifically said that if they did pursue charges against Clinton that it would be the exception because only once has anyone even been charged with the only statue that could apply and those charges were dropped. He even questioned whether the charges could even be upheld constitutionally.

Comey specifically said that pursuing a charge would only be because she was a celebrity, not in spite of it.

You may not like her, or her handling of the situation, but in the end the case only appeared and went so far because she is Hillary Clinton, not in spite of it.

[Salodin]

Um, nah she did do wrong, but because she is technically unemployed at this time she gets a freebie. If this came out when she was still in office, I'd be surprised if she wasn't forced to step down.

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[Krandor]

With the state department reopening their investigation now, it is a distinct possibility that some kind of administrative action will come down on her assorted underlings which could prevent them from working in her cabinet if she wins.

[ringthree]

Um, nah she did do wrong, but because she is technically unemployed at this time she gets a freebie. If this came out when she was still in office, I'd be surprised if she wasn't forced to step down.

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That may be true as well, but doing wrong and doing something criminal are two vastly different things. But that was a State Dept. issue, not just a Hillary Clinton issue.

[Salodin]

And that's true, but doing wrong with classified information has been criminal in so many lesser examples. Her getting off essentially Scott free does a little more than grind my gears.

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[Gryffes]

Here's the relevant perjury video:

[archibaldcrane]

She said "marked" classified, not just that had classified info. Apparently there were only 3 emails out of 30,000 that had any markings of being classified - the parentheses around the letter c ( c ) - and even those didn't have proper classified headers on them. Even among those, two of those 3 emails didn't actually contain classified info, and the ( c ) markings were apparently copy/pasted in error.

So she was wrong when she said there was no marked classified documents - there were 3 marked classified (without headers but still) - one of which actually contained classified info. Whether she knew that back in 2015 when she made that statement is unknown.

Before he began the investigation, Mr. Comey said, he assumed everyone with access to high levels of classified information would have known the importance of the (C) marking. But he said after talking with Mrs. Clinton, he was no longer sure “whether she was actually sophisticated enough to understand what a C in parentheses means.”
“It’s possible — possible — that she didn’t understand what a C meant when she saw it in the body of an email like that,” he said.
Democrats said the (C) was a “tiny, little” marking that Mrs. Clinton could easily have missed — something Mr. Comey said was indeed possible. The State Department said those messages probably shouldn’t have been marked classified anyway.
“Those markings were a human error. They didn’t need to be there,” department spokesman John Kirby told reporters Wednesday.
Documents with secret information are supposed to be marked with a header saying they are classified, and none of the three emails with the (C) markings had that header information, Mr. Comey said. That meant they were not properly marked according to the rules, he said.

[archibaldcrane]

It would be really easy to make the case that when Hillary said none of the emails were "marked classified" she believed she was telling the truth because none of them had the proper classified headers.

[Krandor]

So we cycle back around to incompetence as her primary defense.

[Gredival]

So we cycle back around to incompetence as her primary defense.

The idea that certain crimes require specific intent is not an invention; it is a basic foundation of criminal law.

[Minions]

So we cycle back around to incompetence as her primary defense.

So you don't have any issues with people failing to properly mark confidential documents confidential? Lets not act like this ONLY a Clinton issue. The whole State department and the government in general is inept when it comes to doing their jobs properly. Not labeling stuff except with a (c), is as half ass as it can get, and the FBI director strait up said it is likely she may not have even seen that in a huge ass email chain, let alone that most people would likely not have known that (c) means the entire chain has become confidential. To me it sounds like the entire State department (among others) are extremely lax, and the FBI director even said so.

[Krandor]

The idea that certain crimes require specific intent is not an invention; it is a basic foundation of criminal law.

Oh I know.

I just find it fantastic that her defense for indictment and the likely perjury investigation is because she's inept.

@ Minions, shit rolls downhill. If there was an issue with the entire Clinton-run state department failing to handle classified materials properly, guess where the blame should lie?

[Minions]

Oh I know.

I just find it fantastic that her defense for indictment and the likely perjury investigation is because she's inept.

@ Minions, shit rolls downhill. If there was an issue with the entire Clinton-run state department failing to handle classified materials properly, guess where the blame should lie?

I assume someone that works Information security for the state department? Some how I think you think Hilary is the one that keeps this shit in check. In reality there should be whole departments whose purpose is what your are talking about. I highly doubt the secretary of state is overseeing people marking emails. At this point it seems no one exists or existed in the fact that did that, otherwise we wouldn't be hearing about multiple secretaries of state using private emails (not private servers), but admitting to using private email accounts work working at home. Sounds an awful lot like there has been little to no oversight for decades, not while Clinton was secretary of state.

[ringthree]

So you don't have any issues with people failing to properly mark confidential documents confidential? Lets not act like this ONLY a Clinton issue. The whole State department and the government in general is inept when it comes to doing their jobs properly. Not labeling stuff except with a (c), is as half ass as it can get, and the FBI director strait up said it is likely she may not have even seen that in a huge ass email chain, let alone that most people would likely not have known that (c) means the entire chain has become confidential. To me it sounds like the entire State department (among others) are extremely lax, and the FBI director even said so.

I hate this "the government is inept" shit as well. They are humans, just like in any other line of work. They can make mistakes. People in the corporate world make mistakes as well. Out of 30,000 emails we are talking about 2 mismarked ones, and 1 that shouldn't have been shared.

That is not being inept, that is being overwhelmed.

[ringthree]

Oh I know.

I just find it fantastic that her defense for indictment and the likely perjury investigation is because she's inept.

@ Minions, shit rolls downhill. If there was an issue with the entire Clinton-run state department failing to handle classified materials properly, guess where the blame should lie?

3 emails out of 30000 with a (c) on it. Yep, that's complete and utter ineptitude.

[Byrthnoth]

Misses 3 (c)s in 30000 emails and she is incompetent? Are you guys joking or idiots?