2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Krandor]

I'm quite happy I didn't understand an O'Reilly reference outside of "Fuck it will do it live"

And the GOP machine is responsible for making Hillary a pathological liar who is too incompetent to understand how classified markings work or to deride the presence of money in politics the same day she accepts $25 million from George Soros?

[Tyrath]

No but it's responsible for you thinking that when she does things most politicians do that she is the root of all evil whereas its fine with everyone else.

It's responsible for you skipping over all the other things she does where she would help push forward the same progressive ideas you believe in (I'm using you in general terms at this point).

[Krandor]

She is? Last I checked she made up the post RNC bump Trump had, and that was only a couple days after the DNC.

In fact, a 5 second Google search would show that Hillary has approximately a 10 point lead on Trump. You gonna keep talking out your ass or...?

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Looking at RCP averages I would love to know how you came to the number 10.

As for talking out of my ass, have I really ever done anything but in this thread?

[Andalusian girls]

She is? Last I checked she made up the post RNC bump Trump had, and that was only a couple days after the DNC.

In fact, a 5 second Google search would show that Hillary has approximately a 10 point lead on Trump. You gonna keep talking out your ass or...?

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the 3 RCP aggregated polls to be conducted since the DNC convention ended have Hilldog +5 +6 and +9. Nathaniel just wrote an article stating the data strongly indicates Hillary will receive a larger convention bump than did Trump, though, it will be impossible to disentangle that from the self-inflicted damage wrought by Trump's public feud with a gold star family and his trio of Ukraine/NATO/Russia comments.

but i'm not sure why people still bother engaging with Krandor over Clinton. his anti-Hillary bias is a firmly established pillar of this subforum.

[Krandor]

No but it's responsible for you thinking that when she does things most politicians do that she is the root of all evil whereas its fine with everyone else.

It's responsible for you skipping over all the other things she does where she would help push forward the same progressive ideas you believe in (I'm using you in general terms at this point).

Ok to actually be realistic for a second, there is a completely valid argument to be made against "skipping over." Blame the magical GOP propaganda machine (do MSNBC, CNN, and all the rest of the Clinton donor network work as a media arm for the Republican's too?) or what have you, but there's no denying that a trail of shit follows the Clintons wherever they go. True, very little of it actually sticks, but the stench is still always there. For people who may have legitimate concerns over of the corruption of special interests/money/greed/yadda yadda, Hillary is practically the poster child for that kind of stuff.

Yes Trump is a gigantic buffoon who's primary demographic is the lowest levels of the lowest common denominator, but when people like the Koch brothers (who have been fueling the GOP for decades) refuse to get involved with him, it offers a valid sticking point for some people if they're willing to overlook "all the other things." Just like how people here can overlook Hillary's flaws because "supreme court"

And yes, like just said above, my extreme dislike for Hillary is entrenched and will never be removed. The appetizer of the astoundingly right wing upbringing I got from my father (which to be fair I've mostly shed over the years) has been complimented by a delightful red wine with a hint of incompetence in the handling of classified materials, which I've explained ad nauseam in this thread quite a few times.

[Salodin]

I said approximately 10 points, based on the first Google link which has her 9 points over Trump h2h, while Google populated results have it closer to 5ish, but all agree Clinton is in the lead. Guess we're not quite done talking out of our ass though =(

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[Krandor]

I mean, almost all of the hardcore conservatives have been run off this board years ago, you guys need at least something to poke the bear so it doesn't turn into a complete echo chamber circle jerk of liberalism. Of course I don't actually care enough about most of the sticking points to provide a real counterpoint, but such is life when you grow up/vote in a state that is staunchly blue where a vote for the non-Dem is wasted.

[Gredival]

If she is such an excellent candidate why is she apparently struggling to beat Trump?

Because democracy relies on people actually being capable judges and most people use stupid criterion like who they would rather have a beer with instead of trying to assess what the candidate will accomplish?

[Salodin]

With pessimism like that any vote made for something that does not pass is a wasted vote.

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[Dotsudoku]

We have at least one person capable of being reasonable without being just another liberal, that's not really an excuse

[Krandor]

With pessimism like that any vote made for something that does not pass is a wasted vote.

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Sorry I should have specified specifically in Presidential elections. Washington hasn't gone red since Reagan, and will unlikely change in any foreseeable future.

[Greatguardian]

The vast majority of this thread has been various shades of blue beating up on each other for either being too idealistic or not idealistic enough. Echo chamber my ass, lol.

[Roranora]

Is it possible one can dislike her and yet support her winning? We already know these are the least two likable candidates in recent history.

One can dislike both animal cruelty and PETA. You can loathe Hillary cause your family/hometown taught you to cheer for the Red Team, and you can accurately identify Trump as a gigantic buffoon, apparently. It's just that final step that may prove insurmountable. LeftLand and RightLand reason differently after all.

One's going to win, and it's.. interesting how the Kochs' non-involvement is a key part of Trump's platform-less campaign for the "He's not beholden!"-type individuals.

[archibaldcrane]

Cool off guys, take a break. Here, enjoy Trump's fully nude hot-ass wife.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/30/melania...en-her-before/

[Jefe]

Are there any Ivanka nudes doe?

[Clash Perez]

Now we need a picture of Bill in the buff.

For parity's sake, of course.

[Tyche]

Imagine the GOP reaction if this list belonged to Hillary.

Trump:
Openly mocked the grieving Khan family who spoke at the 2016 DNC.
Pondering if the mother was silenced because she was oppressed by the Husband
Trump diminished the Khan's family grief by further saying he too "sacrificed" like they did, citing his previous business dealings and hiring of people
Openly mocked McCain for serving 5-years as a POW
Openly mocked a disabled reporter
Said the Judge presiding over his fraud case couldn’t be impartial because he has a Mexican heritage
Openly mocked the appearance of Ted Cruz’s wife
Said women who have been abused by Roger Ailes should be thankful that he gave them a career
Said Megyn Kelly was harsh to him in the GOP debate because she was on her period
Said women who have abortions should be punished
Lied about himself by creating multiple alter egos in the 80’s and 90’s and served as his own PR man
Lied about seeing “thousands of muslims” cheering in American streets after 9/11Self-congratulates himself only hours after the 2016 Orlando shooting tragedy
Lied about claiming to have been opposed to the Iraq War from the start

Conspiracies and oddities:
Lied and spread the conspiracy that the Clintons secretly killed Vince Foster
Lied in an early GOP debate by saying vaccines cause autism
Lied about “uncovering amazing things” regarding Obama’s past, acted a main figure early on in the birther movement AND speculated that Obama’s secret Kenyan birth certificate might show that he’s secretly a muslim
Said Ted Cruz’s father was part of the JFK assassination
Said Climate Change is a Chinese Hoax
Pondered in an 1994 interview about the future breast size of his then-infant daughter
Pondered in a 2006 interview about dating his daughter if she weren’t related to him
Randomly lies about the NFL, claiming they sent him a letter which agrees to his opposition to the Presidential debate schedules times
Trump repeatedly tried to meet with the Koch brothers, desperate for donations. They refused. He randomly lies, falsely saying it was HE who turned THEM down
Randomly lies about the Colorado State Fire Marshall during a campaign event, when the marshal refused to let more people seat beyond the event's capacity, by saying the Marshal is a Clinton supporter

Trump on Torture/war crimes:
‘Torture works, we won’t take anything off the table’
‘I’d bring back a Hell of a Lot Worse than Waterboarding’'
We have to take out the terrorists families'‘Terror suspects will talk faster when tortured

’Multitude of times with retweeting lies/propaganda from racists and white supremacists:
Incident #1 of Trump retweeting false statistics from a white supremacist source
Incident #2 of Trump retweeting from a white supremacistIncident #3 of Trump retweeting from a white supremacist
Incident #4 of Trump retweeting from a white supremacist
Incident #5 of Trump retweeting from a white supremacist 'Star of David'

Foreign Policy
Trump says Putin will never invade the Ukraine, evidently unaware of Crimea
Trump says Crimea may actually belong to Russia, therefore the invasion was OK

[Tyche]

The DNC television ratings were higher by the millions than the RNC. It's no surprise that Hillary would get a bigger bump.

Also, there's no historical precedent where a candidate trails before the convention then goes in to trail after the convention, but somehow wins the presidency.

[Krandor]

Is it possible one can dislike her and yet support her winning? We already know these are the least two likable candidates in recent history.

One can dislike both animal cruelty and PETA. You can loathe Hillary cause your family/hometown taught you to cheer for the Red Team, and you can accurately identify Trump as a gigantic buffoon, apparently. It's just that final step that may prove insurmountable. LeftLand and RightLand reason differently after all.

One's going to win, and it's.. interesting how the Kochs' non-involvement is a key part of Trump's platform-less campaign for the "He's not beholden!"-type individuals.

As I've mentioned previously, the entire e-mail thing and her inability to properly handled classified information is a gigantic deal-breaker for me. As someone who's day job relates to classified information and my security clearance, seeing her incompetence there is incredibly insulting, to say nothing of the fact she got off.

The DNC television ratings were higher by the millions than the RNC.

The final day (i.e. the speeches from the candidates) was won by the RNC. DNC had a higher average over each day

[Jaxzer]

Playing devil's advocate, the entire country's intelligence community have proven they're just as incompetent to handle classified information. Hence the massive push for cybersecurity.