2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[zoobernut]

Donald Trump posted his position papers on the 2nd Amendment:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...endment-rights

He also did not defend the president when an ignorant questioner (or possible plant) stated that Obama is a Muslim:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/17/politi...ire/index.html

He pulled out of the South Carolina event amidst looming trouble. He stated that he did not "fully hear the question" during the New Hampshire event.

Let us not forget that he kept the Birther movement going:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/18/politi...her/index.html

Not correcting him for thinking Obama is a Muslim wasn't even the worst part believe it or not. For me it was when the person asked Trump (paraphrasing here) "Muslims are a big problem in the USA, how do we get rid of all of them?" and Trumps answer was something along the lines of "I am working on a solution."

[Sho]

Not correcting him for thinking Obama is a Muslim wasn't even the worst part believe it or not. For me it was when the person asked Trump (paraphrasing here) "Muslims are a big problem in the USA, how do we get rid of all of them?" and Trumps answer was something along the lines of "I am working on a solution."

Indeed, it's pretty frightening. He's basically starting to implode however -- The GOP as a political group have been making the distinction between radical Islam and normal Muslims since early 2007, in a post 9/11 World. It wasn't until the Tea Party arrived that this fearmongering made a resurgence. He's playing to that crowd, which has been made smaller and smaller over the years.

[Ksandra]

If you haven't seen this quiz yet, you should:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katlock/who-...yJQ#.onQKxoqWb

Then rewatch AD while imagining Lucille is Trump. It will make you laugh....and feel very very sad.

[Kaelan?]

Biblical Argument for Bernie, from an Evangelical pastor from Liberty University:
https://clyp.it/eusxalwe

Transcript:

Spoiler: show

Hi my name is Jim. I am the guy who recently posted onto Reddit under the Sanders4President Subreddit that I’m a Liberty University Alumni, and that I support Bernie, and think that he’s a good spokesman for justice.

I thought I would take a second to, sort of, unpack that, because I could tell there’s a lot of people, both Evangelical conservative folk and more liberal Bernie-supporting folk, who are very confused that I could occupy both worlds. So, I thought, I’ll take a few seconds and explain myself, and maybe that will be helpful for the conversation.

So a little bit about me. I am not a current student at Liberty. If I was, I actually wouldn’t have been able to post onto that Reddit board and say that I’m supporting Bernie. There is an Honor Code at Liberty University, and while it’s not always enforced, if you support a candidate who is pro-choice or pro-gay marriage, you can be punished by the University, up to and including expulsion from the school. So as a graduate of Liberty University, I’m in a good position to represent folks that might go there and people from the Evangelical tradition, but not be within the world that they can, you know, punish me for my opinion.

So I got my Bachelors degree in Religion from Liberty University, and I also got my Masters degree from Liberty University in Marriage and Family Therapy. In 2004 I worked for the George W. Bush campaign. I spent about 8 years as a Conservative pastor. And also as a schoolteacher at a conservative Christian academy. And today I serve my community as a therapist and also a pastoral counselor, somebody that folks from churches might go see to get counseling whenever they want to see somebody who’s both a clinical counselor but also a pastor.

So I serve all those roles. I think I’m pretty much a card-carrying Evangelical Christian. I still subscribe to a conservative evangelical theology. And what that means, a lot of people get confused when they hear the word ‘conservative,’ they assume you mean politically. ‘Conservative theology’ means that I believe the Bible is trustworthy, I think that God inspired it, Jesus was absolutely real, and really died on the cross, and really did resurrect three days later; and I am an Evangelical Christian in that way.

So, how did I come to find myself supporting Bernie Sanders? How did that evolution take place? How could it be that in 2004 I was working for the George W. Bush campaign, and today in 2015, as a double Liberty University graduate, under Jerry Falwell—when I went to school, Jerry Falwell was the Chancellor—how is it that I could be now supporting Bernie Sanders, who’s a very progressive, very liberal guy; he describes himself as a ‘democratic socialist.’ How do I find common ground on those two things?

Well a lot of people I think falsely believe that in order to do that you have to give up one of your sides. Either you have to not really be a progressive, and you’re just an Evangelical who just likes Bernie, or you have to not really be an Evangelical, and just secretly be a Progressive who’s faking it and pretending to be an Evangelical, but wouldn’t actually pass the litmus test of being an Evangelical.

I pass both tests, I am very much 100% legitimate in both camps, and I want to explain why that’s not a mythological thing, that’s not a disconnect. Some people call that a contradiction, or hypocrisy, it is absolutely not. I believe that my views are 100% consistent. And so I think that the shock value for that comes in beginning to appreciate that the Bible and Jesus, in my opinion and in my very moderate reading of the Bible and the words of Christ, leads us to a Progressive worldview. And that is shocking to a lot of people, especially folks back home in the Evangelical community, they hear that and go, “What are you talking about? That’s heresy—“ it’s like, hold on. Hear me out. There is a Biblical argument for voting for Bernie Sanders, believe it or not, and I’m gonna walk you through it really quick on some key issues.

So that first issue that I’d kind of point your attention to is kind of what Bernie brought up during his speech at Liberty. Basically, the wealth inequality problem—and see a lot of us, on the Evangelical side think that what Jesus really cares about is gay marriage and abortion. And of course, the great irony is if you read the red letters of Jesus, there are no statements on abortion. There are no statements on gay marriage. Now, that’s not to say the Bible doesn’t speak about these things, but it certainly is to say that Jesus, founder and master of our faith, did not see fit to make these high-priority topics. It’s not to say he doesn’t care. But it is to say that we need to be careful not to ‘major on minors.’ We should be focused on the things Jesus did talk about.

So what did Jesus talk about?

So here’s the interesting thing. When I was watching Bernie Sanders talk at Liberty University, I was just really shocked, and something kind of magical happened for me, because as I watched that guy stand up on that stage, here’s what I saw. I saw a wild-haired Jew crying out in a hoarse voice, in a very forceful and forth-speaking way, he was convicting the Christian leaders and religious leaders in that University and calling us out for being complicit in the abandonment of those who suffer: “The least of these.” And siding with the powerful and the rich and the masters of this world. And he was convicting us, and calling us out. And we scorned him, and we stared him down, and with sour faces we thought, “Who is this whacko? And why do all these people seem to follow him, seem to like him? This wild-haired Jew, crying out from the wilderness of the political Left, in his hoarse voice?”

And if you’re an Evangelical listening to me today, you already know where I’m going with this. When I heard Bernie speaking in that way, when I saw that guy on stage at Liberty University, I saw John the Baptist. I saw the wild-haired, roughly-clothed John the Baptist, eating honey and wearing camel’s hair, and crying out to the religious leaders, the Pharisees of his day, calling them corrupt and complicit with those who have all the power and all the money and all the wealth, and for abandoning the people that God loves, that God cares about. For the Pharisees, who were siding with those who already have power and wealth and saying that they will be the last in the Kingdom of God, and that the weak, and the meek, and the simple, and those who need help—they are first in the Kingdom of God.

And I saw that guy, that John the Baptist figure, who is standing up and saying “There is coming a messenger, there is coming a messenger who will bring equity and justice to the poor, and to the weak, and who will stand for ’the least of these.’” That’s the wild-haired Jew that I saw up on that stage. I saw, and felt, the same voice coming from the Bible when I read about John the Baptist, who cried out in the desert to the Pharisees, warning them that Jesus was coming, the messenger of God. And that he was coming to restore justice, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor, and to value ’the least of these’ when the Pharisees had failed.

And as I heard Bernie talking, and as I listened to his cries for justice, I remembered, suddenly, what Jesus had actually said in the Book of Luke, when he unravels the scroll in the synagogue, and he quotes the Book of Isaiah, which says that the Son of God was coming. And then he says, “This has been fulfilled in your presence here today.” He quotes the book of Isaiah which says that the Son of God is coming to bring justice, and Jesus says “it is now come to pass in your presence.” And he says, “I have come to bring Gospel to the poor.”
Gospel—is that word we Evangelical Christians have based everything on. Gospel means ‘good news.’ And Jesus said “I have come to bring good news to the poor.” To restore sight to the blind, to stand with the suffering, to set the captives free, and to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.

Whoa.

As I heard Bernie Sanders crying out to the religious leaders at Liberty University, in his hoarse voice, with his wild hair, this Jew, and he proclaimed justice over us. He called us to account for being complicit with those who are wealthy and those who are powerful and for abandoning the poor, ‘the least of these’ who Jesus said he had come to bring good news to. And in that moment, something occurred to me, as I saw Bernie Sanders up there, as I watched him I realized: Bernie Sanders, for President, is good news for the poor. Bernie Sanders for President is good news for the poor. Bernie Sanders is Gospel for the poor. And Jesus said, “I have come to bring Gospel—good news—to the poor.”

And lightning hit my heart in that moment. And I realized that we are Evangelical Christians, that we believe the Bible. We believe in Jesus. We absolutely shun those who attempt to find nuance and twisted and tortured interpretation of scripture that they would use to master all other broader interpretations, to find some kind of big message that they want to flout. We absolutely scorn such things. And yet somehow, we commit to the mental gymnastics necessary that allows us to abandon ‘the least of these,’ to abandon the poor, to abandon the immigrants, to abandon those who are in prison. I listened to Bernie Sanders, as he said he wanted to welcome the immigrants and give them dignity. As he said he wanted to care for the sick children, and mothers, and fathers, who do not have health care.

As he said he wanted to decrease the amount of human beings who are corralled like cattle in the prisons. As he said he wanted to do justice for those who have nothing and live homeless. And I remembered the words of Jesus, who warned his disciples that there will be judgment, and on that day he will look to his friends, and he will say ‘Blessed are you, for you cared for me, for I was naked and you clothed me; I was sick, and you cared for me; I was hungry, and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink; I was in prison, and you came to visit me; I was homeless, and you gave me shelter.” And the disciples said, “Jesus, when did we do any of those things for you?” And he said, “If you have done it for ‘the least of these,’ you have done it for me.”

And those words echoed in my heart. As I listened to that crazy, hoarse-voiced, wild-haired Jew, standing in front of the religious leaders of the Evangelical movement, calling us to account, as a Jew once did before. Telling us that he intends to care for ‘the least of these.’ To clothe the naked, to shelter the homeless, to care for the sick, to set the prisoners free.

Yes. I am an Evangelical Christian. I believe in the Bible. I follow Jesus. When I look at Bernie Sanders, and I hear the things that he’s saying, it’s like he’s ripping them out of the pages of scripture. I would have to try to avoid the meaning of those words. I would have to bury my head in the sand to continue to support conservative policies. I am religiously conservative but I am not politically so. And I think here is the heart and soul of it:

When we chose to follow Jesus, we decided that the Kingdom of God, and the men and women and children of this world, were more important than us. And that accidentally made us all liberals. The day we decided to follow Christ, and the day we decided that we value other human beings more than ourselves, we accidentally became liberals.

And so there is no contradiction between being a Bible-believing Christian and a Bernie Sanders supporter.

I follow the teachings of Christ: to care for ‘the least of these.’ And I believe that just as John the Baptist once cried out in the desert for justice, and called the religious establishment to account, and hearkened unto the day that Jesus would walk among us, and declare equity and justice and good news for the poor; and just as that day came, that Jesus stood in front of the multitudes at the religious institution and said “I have come to bring gospel to the poor,” I believe that Bernie Sanders now stands in front of us, wild-haired and hoarse-voiced, and he now declares justice for the poor. He declares good news for ‘the least of these.’ He has come to bring gospel. And I wouldn’t be much of a Christian if I didn’t stand on the side of gospel for the poor. Because the last time I checked, that’s where my master Jesus stood, and I’ll stand with him. And for now, that means I stand with Bernie Sanders.

[myreality]

Biblical Argument for Bernie, from an Evangelical pastor from Liberty University:
https://clyp.it/eusxalwe

Transcript:

Spoiler: show

Well shit, that was really inspirational. Being an atheist I still think their loony but hell I liked what I read.

[Ksandra]

Biblical Argument for Bernie, from an Evangelical pastor from Liberty University:
https://clyp.it/eusxalwe

Transcript:

Spoiler: show

I love this. But I don't think it will convince much.

[Zzsark]

I think that poor guy is going to get a lot of backlash for what he wrote. Inspiring maybe (while not very eloquently written), but am I the only one that read that, and as I did realized, however unintentional, that not only was he comparing Bernie Sanders to a "John the Baptist" of our time but also Jesus Christ? That's dangerous ground. I imagine there's going to be some pretty amazing (crazy) responses to that. Was that on Reddit?

[Gredival]

I've always believed that, in general, the devoutly religious SHOULD be socially liberal with a few exceptions. If you read the New Testament I can't comprehend how can you could possibly conclude Jesus would be fine with cutting welfare, denying people healthcare, ostracizing LBGT, etc.? The single time the man ever got angry was at MONEYLENDERS.

Today Pope Francis is received as "radical" but in reality a lot of what he's said about economic inequality has been stated repeatedly by other Popes throughout decades -- it's just that the Church has always seemed to put "stopping moral decay" of society and other such things ahead of the message of mercy. Yet everyone is still flipping their shit about how what he preaches has nothing to do with religion.

For some reason a lot of devoutly religious people have built up this list of things Jesus wants you to oppose as a Christian that are completely out of step with what scripture actually says. Bernie is pointing that out, but the message won't sink in. If you can dissociate Jesus' actual words from what you're doing, you sure as hell aren't going to be stopped by some "socialist" telling you that you read the Bible wrong.

[Marootsoobutsu]

You know why a lot of the people who are most active in food kitchens, blanket programs, housing programs, etc... do NOT use Jesus to invoke more programs from the government?

Because every time the government "does more to help", fewer people are helping. Because making it the government's problem stops it from being YOUR problem. And I don't care if you're as rich as Bill Gates, or homeless without a shirt on your back-- there's something you can do to help. And while I admire the big-heartedness of the desire to make sure folks get help, it's lazy. Because the Middle Class isn't voting for that help when they think THEY have to pay-- they want the rich to pay. But the middle class-- and most of the lower class-- could be doing something. You could volunteer-- an hour a week, an hour a month-- and give food, clothes, blankets. You could tutor. There are hundreds of ways every single person could be helping, and every single one of those ways would help more than another government program. Why? Because when you are there, to help, without the checklist from the bureaucracy, you can find out what this specific person needs to get back on their feet. You can learn their story, and help directly and personally, or direct them to someone who can.

But people don't really want to do that... not when they invoke Jesus to have the government do it. They want it done, sure-- who doesn't want people better off? But they don't want it done themselves. After all-- Real Housewives is on tonight! And it's fine that you're making that choice-- it's your choice. But don't pretend like voting to get it done makes you compassionate. It doesn't. It says "Someone else should deal with all these people, because I just don't want to." That's not the message Jesus gave. He didn't say "Hey, Rome. Get off your butt and give to the poor." He didn't tell Herod, "Dude, you have enough concubines. Spread that wealth to some bread kitchens for the poor." He told a rich man, who came to Him, to give. Some were told to give more, some were told to give everything, but NO ONE was told, "Hey. That rich guy, he's making too much. Let's make him give more to the poor."

Don't get me wrong-- Christians don't all give their time, or their money, or their whatever. Many, many, many don't. But if you go, and you look at who is volunteering, you'll find a hell of a lot more folks who believe in personal accountability-- not just for the poor, but for those who can afford to give. When you look at who is giving most, not just to churches (though many, many churches do an amazing job... certainly not all, and the larger the church, in my experience, the less well it tends to do, though there are exceptions to that rule, too), but to food banks, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, youth programs, libraries, etc... it's not the compassionate folks on the left.

After all, they did their job-- they voted D. And by gum, they'll keep voting D so that someone else can do it. You have similar things on the Right, to an extent-- I gave my tithe; that's enough! It's not.

That's not the message of Jesus.

He said to give. To give, and to give, and to give, and to keep giving. Your time, your money, your empathy, your effort. You want to fix the problem? Then help fix it, in a real way. Don't just vote on it-- DO it. Live it.

[Pirian]

I've always believed that, in general, the devoutly religious SHOULD be socially liberal with a few exceptions. If you read the New Testament I can't comprehend how can you could possibly conclude Jesus would be fine with cutting welfare, denying people healthcare, ostracizing LBGT, etc.? The single time the man ever got angry was at MONEYLENDERS.

There was also that fig tree incident

[Sho]

Trump states he's not obligated to defend Obama against Muslim claims:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/19/politi...ter/index.html

[Blubbartron]

Trump states he's not obligated to defend Obama against Muslim claims:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/19/politi...ter/index.html

No shit? He's also not obligated to defend you if I claim you're a racist. The real story is that people who still think this are fucking crazy, and last I checked, Trump believes the same. This is just a shitty political game by conservatives who are scared shitless of Trump trying to get more attention to that fact, without looking so obviously eager to take him down.

[Sho]

No shit? He's also not obligated to defend you if I claim you're a racist. The real story is that people who still think this are fucking crazy, and last I checked, Trump believes the same. This is just a shitty political game by conservatives who are scared shitless of Trump trying to get more attention to that fact, without looking so obviously eager to take him down.

It was the only reason why I posted it.

It's pretty obvious he doesn't have to say anything, but on a political stage where they game is becoming the POTUS, it's kinda a big deal, chief.

CNN isn't conservative, it's center-left, btw. Anyways, I think everyone across the board is pretty scared at this point of the man moving closer to top position -- he's basically destroying the entire GOP image at this point. Should be more worried and ashamed of the people supporting the man seriously. As Glenn Beck ironically mentioned a few days ago, anyone who supports Trump is [likely] racist.

[Thunder]

I still can't take that threat too seriously... conservatives and liberals alike will push back on trump. How can you beat both sides of the propaganda machine?

Yeah it's pretty cool right now. I enjoy him in the debates and stuff, but I really doubt he wins the nomination after all the woop wooping subsides and a couple months of BOTH liberal and conservative media "educate" americans

[Ksandra]

You know why a lot of the people who are most active in food kitchens, blanket programs, housing programs, etc... do NOT use Jesus to invoke more programs from the government?

Because every time the government "does more to help", fewer people are helping. Because making it the government's problem stops it from being YOUR problem. And I don't care if you're as rich as Bill Gates, or homeless without a shirt on your back-- there's something you can do to help. And while I admire the big-heartedness of the desire to make sure folks get help, it's lazy. Because the Middle Class isn't voting for that help when they think THEY have to pay-- they want the rich to pay. But the middle class-- and most of the lower class-- could be doing something. You could volunteer-- an hour a week, an hour a month-- and give food, clothes, blankets. You could tutor. There are hundreds of ways every single person could be helping, and every single one of those ways would help more than another government program. Why? Because when you are there, to help, without the checklist from the bureaucracy, you can find out what this specific person needs to get back on their feet. You can learn their story, and help directly and personally, or direct them to someone who can.

But people don't really want to do that... not when they invoke Jesus to have the government do it. They want it done, sure-- who doesn't want people better off? But they don't want it done themselves. After all-- Real Housewives is on tonight! And it's fine that you're making that choice-- it's your choice. But don't pretend like voting to get it done makes you compassionate. It doesn't. It says "Someone else should deal with all these people, because I just don't want to." That's not the message Jesus gave. He didn't say "Hey, Rome. Get off your butt and give to the poor." He didn't tell Herod, "Dude, you have enough concubines. Spread that wealth to some bread kitchens for the poor." He told a rich man, who came to Him, to give. Some were told to give more, some were told to give everything, but NO ONE was told, "Hey. That rich guy, he's making too much. Let's make him give more to the poor."

Don't get me wrong-- Christians don't all give their time, or their money, or their whatever. Many, many, many don't. But if you go, and you look at who is volunteering, you'll find a hell of a lot more folks who believe in personal accountability-- not just for the poor, but for those who can afford to give. When you look at who is giving most, not just to churches (though many, many churches do an amazing job... certainly not all, and the larger the church, in my experience, the less well it tends to do, though there are exceptions to that rule, too), but to food banks, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, youth programs, libraries, etc... it's not the compassionate folks on the left.

After all, they did their job-- they voted D. And by gum, they'll keep voting D so that someone else can do it. You have similar things on the Right, to an extent-- I gave my tithe; that's enough! It's not.

That's not the message of Jesus.

He said to give. To give, and to give, and to give, and to keep giving. Your time, your money, your empathy, your effort. You want to fix the problem? Then help fix it, in a real way. Don't just vote on it-- DO it. Live it.

While your heart is in the right place, you need a serious reality pill.

If someone ia starving, they want food. They don't give a fuck if the food is coming from the government or straight from their hands. They need sustenance. And they shouldn't have to wait a thousand years for people to hand it out themselves. The government can be more efficient in making sure the food gets to everyone that needed it. And guess where they will get the money for it? From taxes, which many of us are more than happy to pay to help others.

Yes, if you cut out the middle man and we went directly, but right blue it is not enough. Your soap box speech is not found to be enough. Your soap box speech is not putting any more food on their table. The gov't is a better guarantee. I work at a severely low income school and you have lost your God damn mind if you think these people, these children, should sit and starve and wait for compassion from a capitalist-driven society.

Jesus didn't give a fuck how it's done, as long as it gets done with going through sinful routes. And unless you have a bible quote that allowed me how the government shouldn't help the sick and the needy then you needed to rethink how the world works. Finds the instant fix, THEN work on private assistance to reduce funding. They are hungry now, not tomorrow.

[Ksandra]

There is a lot of autocorrect fun in that. I am too tired to fix it. Figure it out.

[Ksandra]

Food for thought:

If you want a society that had a culture of helping people, you base their laws around helping people.

If your have a country where everything is based on the survival of the fittest, that breeds a culture that will give zero fucks about others.

[Andalusian girls]

what if i want a society that can beat up China and subsidize the existence of fetty wap

[Kanriel]

You know why a lot of the people who are most active in food kitchens, blanket programs, housing programs, etc... do NOT use Jesus to invoke more programs from the government?

Because every time the government "does more to help", fewer people are helping. Because making it the government's problem stops it from being YOUR problem. And I don't care if you're as rich as Bill Gates, or homeless without a shirt on your back-- there's something you can do to help. And while I admire the big-heartedness of the desire to make sure folks get help, it's lazy. Because the Middle Class isn't voting for that help when they think THEY have to pay-- they want the rich to pay. But the middle class-- and most of the lower class-- could be doing something. You could volunteer-- an hour a week, an hour a month-- and give food, clothes, blankets. You could tutor. There are hundreds of ways every single person could be helping, and every single one of those ways would help more than another government program. Why? Because when you are there, to help, without the checklist from the bureaucracy, you can find out what this specific person needs to get back on their feet. You can learn their story, and help directly and personally, or direct them to someone who can.

But people don't really want to do that... not when they invoke Jesus to have the government do it. They want it done, sure-- who doesn't want people better off? But they don't want it done themselves. After all-- Real Housewives is on tonight! And it's fine that you're making that choice-- it's your choice. But don't pretend like voting to get it done makes you compassionate. It doesn't. It says "Someone else should deal with all these people, because I just don't want to." That's not the message Jesus gave. He didn't say "Hey, Rome. Get off your butt and give to the poor." He didn't tell Herod, "Dude, you have enough concubines. Spread that wealth to some bread kitchens for the poor." He told a rich man, who came to Him, to give. Some were told to give more, some were told to give everything, but NO ONE was told, "Hey. That rich guy, he's making too much. Let's make him give more to the poor."

Don't get me wrong-- Christians don't all give their time, or their money, or their whatever. Many, many, many don't. But if you go, and you look at who is volunteering, you'll find a hell of a lot more folks who believe in personal accountability-- not just for the poor, but for those who can afford to give. When you look at who is giving most, not just to churches (though many, many churches do an amazing job... certainly not all, and the larger the church, in my experience, the less well it tends to do, though there are exceptions to that rule, too), but to food banks, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, youth programs, libraries, etc... it's not the compassionate folks on the left.

After all, they did their job-- they voted D. And by gum, they'll keep voting D so that someone else can do it. You have similar things on the Right, to an extent-- I gave my tithe; that's enough! It's not.

That's not the message of Jesus.

He said to give. To give, and to give, and to give, and to keep giving. Your time, your money, your empathy, your effort. You want to fix the problem? Then help fix it, in a real way. Don't just vote on it-- DO it. Live it.

Jesus also said he gave no fucks about money. "Give unto Caeser what is Caeser's." Money means shit all to god, it's a totally man made creation.

You might want to re-read your Bible, as when someone asks Jesus how to get into heaven, he outright states "give up all your worldly possessions and follow me". So yeah, Jesus did say give everything. Again, money is NOTHING to Jesus, by his own words.

And I'm not sure what world you live in, but we've absolutely solved issues and fixed things by voting.

[Sho]

Food for thought:

If you want a society that had a culture of helping people, you base their laws around helping people.

If your have a country where everything is based on the survival of the fittest, that breeds a culture that will give zero fucks about others.

Essentially the tenets of Socialism vs Capitalism. I think the problem with Maroot's post is that it conveniently disregards the morality of humanity, something that should be examined on a case by case basis. Greed is found on both sides, both left and right. It's just examined in a different manner -- consumption (Socialism) vs Production (Capitalism). However, this doesn't mean everyone on the left and the right are greedy, only that not enough are "good", or are willing to assist their fellow man.

The evils in Capitalism are that which those on top who control supply and produced goods will control the price, typically in a manner that benefits their coffers greatly over that of the common man. Promotes exceptionally frugal lifestyles that don't extend beyond family and into the world.

The evils in Socialism are that which those who benefit from this society are more apt to take and take while not giving back once they are able to do so. Promotes laziness and non-frugal consumption due to the fact that their goods are coming from another source (govt.) and not from themselves.

If you look at it, both can be examined with a negative lens -- that which shows greed and avarice.

Jesus also wasn't exactly a Socialist or a Capitalist. He was a man seeking to help redeem humanity.