2015 NFL Off-Season Thread: Fuck tom

[Chun Liroy]

Fuck Tom

[NinjaLotter]

[Celeras]

Several years ago-- back in 2005-- I watched the Patriots on the verge of yet another post-season victory over Peyton Manning. Of course, we all know how that epic come back went down. Desperate Patriots fans look further back in time. Or they look at the regular season. Most look at rings, which, fair enough, but in head to head? I'll hang my hat on Tom Brady having zero wins vs. a Manning in the post season for longer than I've been a father. Zero-- not even a win over Eli, not even a win over Peyton. Everyone-- well, almost everyone-- on these forums has beaten that to death, though.

Truthfully, I love this place; my favorite sports bar got bought out and is trash, and I haven't found a good one for trash talking and the like and most other sports forums are either laden with posters worse than Leroy or have enormously intense restrictions. Occasionally it's frustrating, or eye-rollingly awful in here. Mostly, though, it's all about the first letter of each sentence.

8/10

I preFer the oUt of plaCe Kind of game, so you don'T actually have tO point it out. Not as Much fun when you woosh the tryhards though.

[Marootsoobutsu]

I usually try to keep my homerism to a minimum but this is pretty much spot on.

You remember when that one loss was, right? Playoffs. The game that actually mattered. Besides; the point was more to poke the bear than actually caring.

Tom hasn't ever overachieved with a bad team; he has either had an amazing defense (most of his early career), or an amazing offense (the lost Super Bowls). Right now, Gronk is a bigger factor for the Patriots success than Tom has been. Healthy Gronk? Smash. Broken Gronk? Lose to Peyton. He's made the playoffs with bad teams, but hell. Peyton's done that. Jake Plummer's done that. Jake Delhomme's done that. That's nothing special.

So nah, you're just showing the homer. I've made it clear, repeatedly, that I think Tom's a better QB than Peyton. I've made it clear, repeatedly, that I think Peyton has a ton of problems. At this point, I've just thrown NL on mute, but you jack holes keep quoting him so I'm not sure why I bother. But he's not "pretty much spot on." He's a delusional psychopath incapable of actually reasoning through anything. The only thing that separates him from the standard NFL comments is that he actually takes the time to spell words properly. It's not even fun baiting him most of the time-- he doesn't actually respond to anything anyone says. He's Skip Bayless and Steven A. all rolled into one horribly monotonous poster.

[AidenCarby]

Considering Peyton had a strong offense in the Colts with edgerin James and Marvin Harrison and not to mention a dope ass o-line then inherited the defense that took Tim Fucking Tebow late in the playoffs I'm not sure you have much room to speak on the matter.

[AidenCarby]

And I don't think New England's defense was very good during the first super bowl year. Offense was also not great when the best player on that side of the ball was Troy Brown.

[Marootsoobutsu]

And I don't think New England's defense was very good during the first super bowl year. Offense was also not great when the best player on that side of the ball was Troy Brown.

The Patriots defense in 2001 was allowing 17 points per game-- and, very importantly, allowed 22 TDs on the entire year. Their defense gave up yards, but they forced teams to settle for a lot of field goals. And the Patriots had one of the stronger offensive lines in football at the time. The Patriots (and the Colts) are a large part of the reason more casual fans today pay attention to their O-Lines. The Patriots have also never really had a truly awful special teams. Their offense at the time wasn't world-beating, but the Patriots under Belichick have consistently had above-average (but not super-star) talent all around the field, and very above-average talent at depth everywhere. Say what you will about Troy Brown, but the dude Iron Manned in... was that 2004? 2003? When the Pats secondary just all died. He remains one of my favorite players-- he wasn't going to Pro Bowls, but he showed up, he was consistent, and he did EVERYTHING from offense, defense, and special teams. Dude never got the recognition his influence really gave the Patriots.

Peyton had a strong offense with Marv, Reggie, and Co., but their defense was among the worst in the NFL, excepting in 2005. Peyton made the playoffs (and lost), with the Colts before that offensive machine was really fine tuned, too. After 2005, one or the other of the Colts defensive anchors was consistently injured, and the Colts could have a mind-blowing offense, but their defense was consistently *HORRIBLE* in practice. And when the Patriots have had a terrible defense (not often, but it's happened)? Yeah, Tom flamed out in the playoffs, too. But in 2001, when the Pats had the 6th best scoring defense in the NFL, the Colts had the worst. In 2003, the Pats had the #1 defense, the Colts had the #20. In 2004, the Pats had the #2 defense, the Colts? #19. Last year was the Patriots worst defense to win a Super Bowl-- and it came in at #8 (the Broncos in 2013, by the by, were 23). Oh, and the year Peypey won? Colts D was the #2 scoring defense in the league.

So, yeah. I am fully on board with the idea that Peyton's teams get over-rated-- because they have very, very rarely actually been teams. But it's silly to dismiss the rest of the Patriots. They haven't been an organization that cares about big names; it's been an organization that has been at its best not by world-beating, but just by not having exploitable gaps anywhere in its game. Tom Brady has benefited from truly exceptional line play, and a variety of adequate options; Peyton has had all-star talent in a few places, and miserable, gaping holes elsewhere. I didn't like the Ware pick up, and I don't like them keeping him; there were a half-dozen free agents (either lost or not retained) who would have shored up depth and weaknesses that Denver didn't get because of it. Sack-focus is horrible.

Moneyball is a thing, and the Patriots do it better than anyone else in the NFL, and they have since they brought in Ernie Adams. The Ravens are a very close second, and the Packers are probably third (though all of theirs is "just" a matter of drafting well, and then resigning their own talent); we'll see how well Seattle does, because they're going to have to lose some folks.

[Roranora]

It's all Belichick anyway. 11-5 with Matt Cassel and fleeced the Chiefs of a 2nd rounder.

Regardless of 4 Super Bowls, that still has to be his crowning achievement.

[NinjaLotter]

You remember when that one loss was, right? Playoffs. The game that actually mattered. Besides; the point was more to poke the bear than actually caring.

Tom hasn't ever overachieved with a bad team; he has either had an amazing defense (most of his early career), or an amazing offense (the lost Super Bowls). Right now, Gronk is a bigger factor for the Patriots success than Tom has been. Healthy Gronk? Smash. Broken Gronk? Lose to Peyton. He's made the playoffs with bad teams, but hell. Peyton's done that. Jake Plummer's done that. Jake Delhomme's done that. That's nothing special.

So nah, you're just showing the homer. I've made it clear, repeatedly, that I think Tom's a better QB than Peyton. I've made it clear, repeatedly, that I think Peyton has a ton of problems. At this point, I've just thrown NL on mute, but you jack holes keep quoting him so I'm not sure why I bother. But he's not "pretty much spot on." He's a delusional psychopath incapable of actually reasoning through anything. The only thing that separates him from the standard NFL comments is that he actually takes the time to spell words properly. It's not even fun baiting him most of the time-- he doesn't actually respond to anything anyone says. He's Skip Bayless and Steven A. all rolled into one horribly monotonous poster.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You are a jealous Bronco fan Patriots hater, and the stench of desperation is strong.

The Broncos are 1-3 against New England since signing the lesser Manning. 1-3.

All 3 losses have been devastating dominations or humiliations.

2012: Patriots just dominate Denver. Dominate time of possession, dominate everything. Patriots throttle Broncos so hard, Broncos try to incorporate elements of New England's 2012 offense for 2013, including signing Welker.

2013: Broncos get a 24-0 lead against New England thanks to 3 consecutive and uncharacteristic fumbles on their own side of the field. Tom Brady comes out after the half and starts breathing fire, and the Broncos shit their pants. Patriots win in epic comeback overtime thriller.

2014: Get Hype. Playoff seed implications for sure. The battle for the #1 seed. Get hype, get hype, get hype. Patriots fucking throttle you. A mic'ed up Tom Brady says "Let's go put the nail in the coffin boys" and the Patriots drive a stake through your season in a total beat down.

2014 Playoffs: DT admits to the media that the Broncos locker room was, as he put it, "SCARED" to come to Foxborough.

And you want to talk shit about one game where Brady lost his entire offense (Hernandez, Welker, Gronkowski), and the Patriots were the most injured team in the league at almost every skill position? Almost our entire starting defense was on IR, and our entire veteran starting defense was out for the season.

Tom Brady was throwing to Hooman, Edelman and Mulligan.

In the AFC Championship game.

That's an over achievement.

Meanwhile you got raped that season in the Superbowl because the most injured team in the league that year (Patriots) sent a fraud to the Superbowl.

[NinjaLotter]

It's all Belichick anyway. 11-5 with Matt Cassel and fleeced the Chiefs of a 2nd rounder.

Regardless of 4 Super Bowls, that still has to be his crowning achievement.

Nobody who understands football would make this statement.

[Krandor]

Yes, we all know Belichick's greatest achievement was his Super Bowl win with the Giants.

[NinjaLotter]

The Patriots defense in 2001 was allowing 17 points per game-- and, very importantly, allowed 22 TDs on the entire year. Their defense gave up yards, but they forced teams to settle for a lot of field goals. And the Patriots had one of the stronger offensive lines in football at the time. The Patriots (and the Colts) are a large part of the reason more casual fans today pay attention to their O-Lines. The Patriots have also never really had a truly awful special teams. Their offense at the time wasn't world-beating, but the Patriots under Belichick have consistently had above-average (but not super-star) talent all around the field, and very above-average talent at depth everywhere. Say what you will about Troy Brown, but the dude Iron Manned in... was that 2004? 2003? When the Pats secondary just all died. He remains one of my favorite players-- he wasn't going to Pro Bowls, but he showed up, he was consistent, and he did EVERYTHING from offense, defense, and special teams. Dude never got the recognition his influence really gave the Patriots.

Peyton had a strong offense with Marv, Reggie, and Co., but their defense was among the worst in the NFL, excepting in 2005. Peyton made the playoffs (and lost), with the Colts before that offensive machine was really fine tuned, too. After 2005, one or the other of the Colts defensive anchors was consistently injured, and the Colts could have a mind-blowing offense, but their defense was consistently *HORRIBLE* in practice. And when the Patriots have had a terrible defense (not often, but it's happened)? Yeah, Tom flamed out in the playoffs, too. But in 2001, when the Pats had the 6th best scoring defense in the NFL, the Colts had the worst. In 2003, the Pats had the #1 defense, the Colts had the #20. In 2004, the Pats had the #2 defense, the Colts? #19. Last year was the Patriots worst defense to win a Super Bowl-- and it came in at #8 (the Broncos in 2013, by the by, were 23). Oh, and the year Peypey won? Colts D was the #2 scoring defense in the league.

So, yeah. I am fully on board with the idea that Peyton's teams get over-rated-- because they have very, very rarely actually been teams. But it's silly to dismiss the rest of the Patriots. They haven't been an organization that cares about big names; it's been an organization that has been at its best not by world-beating, but just by not having exploitable gaps anywhere in its game. Tom Brady has benefited from truly exceptional line play, and a variety of adequate options; Peyton has had all-star talent in a few places, and miserable, gaping holes elsewhere. I didn't like the Ware pick up, and I don't like them keeping him; there were a half-dozen free agents (either lost or not retained) who would have shored up depth and weaknesses that Denver didn't get because of it. Sack-focus is horrible.

Moneyball is a thing, and the Patriots do it better than anyone else in the NFL, and they have since they brought in Ernie Adams. The Ravens are a very close second, and the Packers are probably third (though all of theirs is "just" a matter of drafting well, and then resigning their own talent); we'll see how well Seattle does, because they're going to have to lose some folks.

The 2011 Patriot defense would of been record setting bad if the Packers weren't just a hair worse. Tom took that team to the Superbowl and came a Welker drop away from winning it.

Last season the NE defense constantly shit the bed in the playoffs. Either go back and watch the games or just look through game day threads. You were celebrating like a school girl when January Joe Flacco was shredding New England in Gillette last January, but now you want to talk about "Tom's uber defenses."

You have like the least amount of credibility in this thread. You're right there with the Jet fan, but he doesn't pretend to be credible. You do.

Without Tom Brady the Patriots don't even get past the Ravens last season, never mind past the Legion of Boom in the Superbowl.

His playoff performance was legendary. I bet you're so fucking mad

[Roranora]

Nobody who understands football would make this statement.

Nobody who saw Cassel's subsequent play would downplay Belichick's own greatness. He'll crack the whip hard on guys, but he's the best coach. Bardy is deece and all, but fuck tom

Belichick will likely coach longer than Brady plays; we'll see.

[Adajer]

Nobody who saw Cassel's subsequent play would downplay Belichick's own greatness. He'll crack the whip hard on guys, but he's the best coach. Bardy is deece and all, but fuck tom

Belichick will likely coach longer than Brady plays; we'll see.

No shit, can coach til he is 80 if he wants to. Belichick won so many Superbowls without Tom.

Brady lost to the Giants Defense. Eli manning was just present to throw the ball up for grabs.

[NinjaLotter]

I'm drunk so I just want to say fuck all of you.

GO Pats baby!

[NinjaLotter]

Nobody who saw Cassel's subsequent play would downplay Belichick's own greatness. He'll crack the whip hard on guys, but he's the best coach. Bardy is deece and all, but fuck tom

Belichick will likely coach longer than Brady plays; we'll see.

Belichick is the fucking boss man but you can't win without a QB in the NFL. The Matt Cassell Patriots went 11-5, but they also didn't beat a single team with a winning record, or make the playoffs, or play the AFC North and other touch divisions. Brady would of easily repeated 16-0 or at least went 15-1 with that schedule, and been back in the Superbowl.

Steelers only won that season because Tom was out.

[NinjaLotter]

Fuck you

[NinjaLotter]

No shit, can coach til he is 80 if he wants to. Belichick won so many Superbowls without Tom.

Brady lost to the Giants Defense. Eli manning was just present to throw the ball up for grabs.

Tom had like 2 seconds every play in the 18-1 Superbowl. Dat pass rush, too no relent.

Fucking ELi

[Melena]

Belichick is the fucking boss man but you can't win without a QB in the NFL. The Matt Cassell Patriots went 11-5, but they also didn't beat a single team with a winning record, or make the playoffs, or play the AFC North and other touch divisions. Brady would of easily repeated 16-0 or at least went 15-1 with that schedule, and been back in the Superbowl.

Steelers only won that season because Tom was out.

Trent Dilfer says hi

[NinjaLotter]

Trent Dilfer says hi

In my mind's eye I just busted a cap in you, nigga