FFXI Nostalgia/Why did I ever stop playing!?/Let's all go back to 2009/Never forget Kujata Thread

[arus2001]

Arus your stance is stumbling over itself time and time again man. Let’s get some coherency and direction here. Too lazy to cite the writing.

Well, yeah, I've touched on numerous subjects because the matter of populations aren't solely linked to one activity like we're being told it is. If you want some clarification, then shoot, but I can't get coherent if I don't even know where I lost you.

[Gredival]

they did, actually. Moonshade earring, which is still useful today, if you picked the right augments.



The problem, though, is that it took them a full three years to even release it. WotG came out in 2007; its final content patch was in 2010. That drip-feed absolutely destroyed the mid-core audience, who were dedicated enough to do the grind but didn't want to fuck around with HNMs, and who thrived on doing storyline content for fun/community building. and that mid-core audience is who helped people move from the casual groups to the hardcore groups. they'd take newbies and teach them, get them their progression clears, etc, and a few of those newbies would go off and feed the HNM shells. Without that vehicle, the community collapsed in on itself, with the HNMLS burnout eating players from the top, and the steep learning curve/barrier-to-entry eating players from the bottom.

Yeah hands down I can't contest that WotG was a massive fuck-up in terms of offering various levels of stratified content. WotG was barebones. Ignoring story, every expansion added at least three distinct forms of terminal end game content plus mid tier content.

Zilart: Sky, Kings, Dynamis, KSNM
CoP: Sea, Wyrms (including Ouryu and the Bahamut instances), Limbus
ToAU: ZNM/PW, Beastmen Kings, Assault/Salvage, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle

WotG was just ANNM (which was worthless) plus Ixion and Sandworm. I just didn't notice at the time because I was the exact market that was satisfied just camping Ixion and Sandworm.

[Rhyis.]

Except I did do that. I threw down numbers on camp rate vs. claim rate as proof that bodies in the pit is the number one influencer on claim rate, irrespective of botting.

We've seen time and time again that the most reliable predictor of claim rate is camping frequency + number of bodies: https://kanican.livejournal.com/1060.html

Uh, nowhere in the TK livejournal does that get stated anywhere. The overview literally says "How often a LS camps or how many they camp with" is not in the article. Kanican only shows how many claims each specific HNMLS made. You've completely misinterpreted the data Kanican put forth... I would know, I was on Odin doing HNM during the time frame that article was made. TK was one of the smallest HNMLSs on Odin.

[Gredival]

"Once again, please don't use this data to try to implicate anyone or any LS of botting. I'm fairly certain all the data here, if anything, disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting."

"Nidhogg shows a much more varied distribution of claims - due to the fact that it has the most competition between LSs"

"these trends are not that surprising, as LB and BBQ are regarded as the most active LSs in kings"



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[Rhyis.]

Guy. The dude that wrote the damn article flat out tells you the article doesn't tell you how often any of the LS' camp kings, nor does it say how many members were at the camps. It literally says that. It isn't tracked at all. The only things that are tracked are how often each LS claims, kills, wipes, takes, etc had on each specific mob. And then it's put into a percentage. That's it.

Forgot about the fact that I have a pretty good indication of how many members each of those shells had in 06. Hell, I bet I could still name a dozen members in all of those shells during that time lol

[Gredival]

Bruh.

"I'm fairly certain all the data here, if anything, disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting."

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[Rhyis.]

"Once again, please don't use this data to try to implicate anyone or any LS of botting. I'm fairly certain all the data here, if anything, disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting."

He says the first bit because the data he's compiled shows that LB, BBQ, Clan, and TK account for 80% of HNM claims in that 10 month period. He says the 2nd part because he believes that if botting were taking place there would be more of a monopoly on the claims, opposed to the four way split that was taking place.

Also the overview states: "What this overview does NOT give:
- Proof or implications on any LS botting"

Why would he say this if the article proves otherwise lol

... Once again, the article literally states what you're saying isn't in the article. I actually know Kanican. I'm not sure how to be more clear lol

[Gredival]

"Once again, please don't use this data to try to implicate anyone or any LS of botting. I'm fairly certain all the data here, if anything, disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting."

He says the first bit because the data he's compiled shows that LB, BBQ, Clan, and TK account for 80% of HNM claims in that 10 month period.

Then he goes on to say the second part, because "these trends are not that surprising, as LB and BBQ are regarded as the most active LSs in kings"

Why are they not surprising? Perhaps it's because the shells that are the most active camping tend to achieve the best results from camping.

He says the 2nd part because he believes that if botting were taking place there would be more of a monopoly on the claims, opposed to the four way split that was taking place.

...because the split lines up with what we can expect in normal circumstances. Which again, "disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting"

Also the overview states: "What this overview does NOT give:
- Proof or implications on any LS botting"

Why would he say this if the article proves otherwise lol

Because the article finds no statistical anomalies and to be "proof" of any LS botting there would have to be an anomoly from which we could infer cheating?

... Once again, the article literally states what you're saying isn't in the article. I actually know Kanican. I'm not sure how to be more clear lol

I don't need to know Kanican to be able to read the words on the page that say "the data here, if anything, disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting."

[NynJa]

Theres nothing in there that correlates PC count to claim rate though. Theres zero indication of how many PC's per LS are attempting to claim.

The top claiming LS's could only have 12 people in the pit, and the scrub zerg LS's that dont claim shit could have 24. But that information isnt present.

[Karbuncle]

Can we all stop for a moment and appreciate this game was on PS2/3, Xbox and PC with full cross-play? Cause I forgot about that until ya'll started bickering about "PCs claiming" and my brain didn't distinguish Player-character from Personal computer.

[Gredival]

Can we all stop for a moment and appreciate this game was on PS2/3, Xbox and PC with full cross-play? Cause I forgot about that until ya'll started bickering about "PCs claiming" and my brain didn't distinguish Player-character from Personal computer.

Would be a lot more appreciable if "PS2 limitations" wasn't used to shut down literally any possible improvement.

[Rhyis.]

Then he goes on to say the second part, because "these trends are not that surprising, as LB and BBQ are regarded as the most active LSs in kings"

Why are they not surprising? Perhaps it's because the shells that are the most active camping tend to achieve the best results from camping.



...because the split lines up with what we can expect in normal circumstances. Which again, "disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting"



Because the article finds no statistical anomalies and to be "proof" of any LS botting there would have to be an anomoly from which we could infer cheating?



I don't need to know Kanican to be able to read the words on the page that say "the data here, if anything, disproves any LS of gaining a huge advantage by botting."

[Corrderio]

Lol... What the fuck happened to this thread?

Can we all stop for a moment and appreciate this game was on PS2/3, Xbox and PC with full cross-play? Cause I forgot about that until ya'll started bickering about "PCs claiming" and my brain didn't distinguish Player-character from Personal computer.

To this day I'm still surprised that actually happened. XI/XIV are the only games I know of that allow crossplay like that.

[bori]

Maybe this will settle things down:

[Gokulo]

This and Selbina track, so relaxing when waiting for dunes party~

[Day]

Jesus christ Gred

[Salodin]

Gred just mad cause he wants to be an uberbitch but no one considers him such cause he is cisbotter scum.

I agree the community needed exceedingly rare gear to work towards, but dont exalt the HNM community like the big players weren't only the big players because they used any and all out of game means to influence not just the claim on the mob, but sometimes the fight itself too. They are uber cheaters, not uber players. Gred acting like the rest of the community wouldn't learn and pick up on the strategy for a King fight if they had access to that mob type (and abilities list) more frequently. Get out of here with that crap.

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[Salodin]

Make bitches avoid a spike flail for their Matt fight and I bet you wouldn't be talking all this shit.

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[gaira]

never got to experience kings when they were relevant, was too busy derping around on bst solo grind to 75. ah that lovely 100xp for even match kills.

[Fondue]

Is gred considering that all 4 of those LS were all using bots? None of that data means anything unless it's how many times in a blue moon does a non botter claim anything
Obviously there is going to be some distribution in claims when all the shells were using the same bots

Pretending like you contributed anything to claims by being in a hnmls and not botting is hilarious tho