Heathen Happy Hour (Atheism Thread - Bibles Beware)

[Waraji]

So was linked this interesting article, and thought I would share. From my understanding, the author frequently covers religious based topics, which I feel effects they way he portrays the people in the article.

It's long, slow reading took me about 40 mins.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2015/...sts-next-door/

In those days, the Shaughnessys were Catholic. They herded their children to Mass on Sundays and celebrated the sacraments, mostly. While Charlotte taught at the parish school and Harry started a computer consulting business, they tried, for the most part, to follow the church's doctrines.

But one day a question cracked the foundation of Harry's faith, and the fissure slowly widened until the walls shivered and the roof shook and the whole damn house fell down. Like most demolitions, it caused a disturbance.

I found it very interesting the nauseating forced narrative that the author attempts to use to "Humanize" this family, as if they were anything less to begin with. Then again, to the majority of theists in the US, we're probably just as bad.

Their experience probably comes from a very familiar place for some here, or not, as there would naturally be more people that have fallen from religion than natural born atheists.

What are your thoughts on how this article portrays this family, and really Atheism as a religion? If at all. Are any here struggling with falling out from religion?

Edit: I would like to see this thread more to do with how Atheism is being portrayed in recent times. With discussions on coming to Atheism, falling from religion (current, past is ok if relevant to dicussion). Let's try to leave the theism hate/talk to a minimum, and only when relevant.

[Tyrath]

I will have to read the article at work, but based on your comments I'm already getting red flags. Biggest pet peeve of mine and many other atheists I know is anyone who tries to portray atheism as a religion. Is Off a TV channel or bald a hair color?

But yeah I think as far as polls show in the US atheists are trusted less than rapists.

Anyway I'll have more to say once I read the full article at work.

[Waraji]

Biggest pet peeve of mine and many other atheists I know is anyone who tries to portray atheism as a religion.

I hear you, it IS the single biggest gripe the majority of us have. I much rather bubble in None than having to bubble in Atheist in a questionnaire. Having to be placed in the same Religion category as everything else bothers me.

There's another good bit in the article about an Atheist "church". That's another one for me lol.

[ronin sparthos]

Not having a support group is a major gripe from ex-theists based on what I used to hear from a support group I frequented. Church doesn't only cover a supernatural need but a desire to be part of an extended group of likeminded people. I imagine this is less a concern for folks raised atheist or many introverts who really don't need people to feel normal.

I wouldn't go far as to say there's a need for Atheist 'church' but sure enough people will bank on that word for money/power. There is need for places where people without religion can interact with eachother. It's pretty easy to feel isolated though the internet.

[Vandalhart]

One thing I've said regularly is that society needs to care a little less about certain things. Whether someone believes in The God, gods, the Force or a giant space turtle has no bearing on my everyday life so I don't give a crap what they believe in.

To me, the main times Atheism comes close to being a religion is when you have an individual who feels they need to spread their stance and tell other people they are wrong in their beliefs. It comes a little too close to what religions do.

[Voyage1970]

While I can understand wanting a group to belong to and share ideas with, why does it necessarily have to be based around your religion (or lack thereof)? You could always look for groups to converse with based on your other hobbies be they vidya, SPORTS, modeling, etc. I mean if being Atheist is your main hobby I guess it would be an issue but honestly putting that much effort into your anti-theism kinda just makes you a zealot which is what I figure an Atheist would try not to be.

Granted I'm speaking from personal experience only and I know I don't speak for every Atheist let alone even a small minority of them. I was raised catholic up until about high school. Sunday School, mass every weekend and was even an altar boy for 3 years. All of it was because it was forced on me and only when my family really stopped caring that much did I drop it not out of spite but because I didn't feel like wasting time when I could be doing other things like sleeping or having fun. To me Atheism isn't about trying to convince other people God doesn't exist or even discussing how he doesn't with other Atheists, it's more "Oh you do/don't believe in God? Ok cool, let's talk about something more interesting now."

[Tyrath]

I mean if being Atheist is your main hobby I guess it would be an issue but honestly putting that much effort into your anti-theism kinda just makes you a zealot which is what I figure an Atheist would try not to be.

This kind of talk really bothers me. As long as we have lawmakers in this country who tell me American's have freedom of religion but not freedom FROM religion and others who try to push anti-abortion, anti-gay and other laws based on the bible, I don't see how you can consider someone a zealot for wanting to lessen the influence of religion. And that is just me talking about the religious issues in USA, don't even get me started about the rest of the world. It may not be that important in your life, but please don't look down on atheists who do actually have a problem with how religion is treated with reverence and fanaticism in much of the world.

Since this is outside the scope of the thread, I will leave it at that.

[Andalusian girls]

outside the scope or not you are entirely accurate, as Christopher Hitchens said other people's religions are like other people's genitals, it is fine for them to have whatever kind they wish and play with them as often as they desire at home but issues arise when they try to shove them down our throats. and it is a vexation for individuals to suggest one must disbelieve in relative silence and respect the beliefs of others when the beliefs of others are continually forced upon the body politic and function as a deeply regressive, prejudicial, and antiscientific vein of American culture.

i have never and would never attempt to deconvert friends and loves ones nor do i identify as an atheist any more than i identify as an acommunist or aepicureanist but to suggest one is a zealot for actively speaking against the pernicious influence of religion is an absurdity and bestows upon religion a delicate inviolability that is not granted to any secular system of belief. the words fanatic, zealot, bigot are not hurled against those who argue against trickle-down economics.

[Waraji]

One thing we spoke about recently in our group, was how adamant we are about not proselytizing our disbelief, let alone being militant. Which leads me to believe, with the size of the group, and general understanding of Atheists on the interwebs, that there aren't as large a group or percentage of anti-theist militant Atheists as there are theistic fanatics trying to convert poeple. Perhaps that has to do with the size in comparison. We're talking about Billions of religious people vs. possibly millions of open atheists.

[Raldo]

This kind of talk really bothers me...

I think you looked a little too deep beyond what Voyage said. All Voyage said is that forming a group to hang out with based solely on lack of theism is kinda dumb, and he probably could've scratched his community itch by simply hanging out with local groups involved in a hobby or something that he cared about.

If the article's "Secular Together" group was actually doing something to combat the pervasiveness of religion in places where it doesn't belong would be one thing, but it sounded like they just did useless shit just to foster a community because some guy missed having a bunch of random people to hang out with on Sundays. The "Triangle Freethought Society" mentioned in the article sounded like they might've been doing some useful things; "Secular Together" not so much.

[Voyage1970]

^
Thank you.

Yes that's what I was getting at. I understand combating religious fanaticism when it affects the people who don't want to be involved such as it entering politics or what have you. I was just referring to his need/desire to find a place to fit in but not looking beyond "Well I used to hang out with other Catholics, but now I'm atheist so I need to find some other atheists to hang out with." In the article he talks about going on a vacation with a family friend and her mentioning how she found a new church and his response is to go on a tirade about why she would do that and doesn't she know religion is a farce? Then she didn't want to go on vacation with his family again. That's the point I'm trying to impress. It seems he's taking his new philosophy to an unhealthy extreme where it's not really needed.

[Tyrath]

Well part of it that is easy to forget, some people have had their entire early years marred by religion. I get what you're saying about why do you need to find social groups where you can talk about this, because not everyone needs that. But there are people who are forced to essentially be in the closet about their atheism because they are in very hostile parts of the world like the middle east or even the bible belt. Speaking their mind about what they believe can very easily lead to being disowned by their families or in worse places to bodily injury or death. I can see very easily why someone who lives in a world like that would have a need of having a sort of support group to go to where they could just speak their mind. Obviously, I don't think the way the guy goes on a tirade in the article is a good/healthy way of going about it, but sometimes if you've been shutting it in for long enough, you become ready to explode because you are suppressing something that is a part of your identity.

[Xantavia]

I think a big problem is all the strawmanning when it comes to athiesm. There are religious groups out there who make up caricatures and tell everybody that is how athiests act. We showed the movie "God Not's Dead" at my theatre, and the hardcore Christian crowd loved it because "they told it like it is". Don't waste your time watching the movie, somebody summed it up rather nicely. NSFW language.

[Tyrath]

I especially hate it when they misspell atheists

[Waraji]

Don't waste your time watching the movie, somebody summed it up rather nicely. NSFW language.

These guys ripped that movie so good. It's a bit longer, but the commentary is phenomenal. I love them:


So far I like where the discussion has gone. It doesn't help when they perpetuate anything but a follower of their religion as heathens lacking a moral compass. Yet the morals they supposedly get come from the Old Testament, seeing as how that's the book they read off of at church. Louis Black has a pretty good skit about that actually.

[Moss]

I knew it looked familiar, that was shot on the LSU campus. I wonder if they only allowed christians to appear as extras

[Vandalhart]

These guys ripped that movie so good. It's a bit longer, but the commentary is phenomenal. I love them:


So far I like where the discussion has gone. It doesn't help when they perpetuate anything but a follower of their religion as heathens lacking a moral compass. Yet the morals they supposedly get come from the Old Testament, seeing as how that's the book they read off of at church. Louis Black has a pretty good skit about that actually.

I've been given the impression from my sister that I can get pretty opinionated and worked up when a conversation about religion comes up. Maybe it's mostly because she and I are on the same page or at least can have a conversation about the topic and I don't have to hold back.

A couple of things that come to my mind about the christian religions are:

1. It was something created by the ruling body to help control the populace. What better way to do that than the give them fear of eternal damnation?
2. In the beginning, it started as a cult just like most other religions do now-a-days. My impression of most other religions (the few coming to my mind are Taoism, Buddhism, and the Pantheon of gods from Rome/Greece) is that they're relatively more open about accepting other people's beliefs.

One thing that I've said to my sister in recent years is that I have one major golden rule: Don't be an asshole. Where she joked saying, "ahh, yes. I believe Jesus was quoted saying that in the New Testament somewhere".

[Voyage1970]

[Aristio]

I think a big problem is all the strawmanning when it comes to athiesm. There are religious groups out there who make up caricatures and tell everybody that is how athiests act. We showed the movie "God Not's Dead" at my theatre, and the hardcore Christian crowd loved it because "they told it like it is". Don't waste your time watching the movie, somebody summed it up rather nicely. NSFW language.

Wasn't the book it was based on, just plain false? The boy said he made it up and the only reason they kept up with the charade was the money?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-to-publisher/

Edit: Wrong movie, my bad lol. Was thinking off Heaven is for Real.

[Cream Soda]

lol reminds me of the atheists groups I see on my city's reddit and meetup.com. I'm an atheist and former believer, but I think the need to gather together to talk about atheism is downright laughable. I just let people believe what they want, and I do my own thing.