Vagary Findings

[Lyramion]

oh Sechs please carefully read the last few pages again


Anyway Hades #2 is "Plouton" the body NM that will somehow pop on CL132 and we are on the hunt for how to pop it. Perfidian is CL130 for legs. It gets a 5th RoE after you cleared leg NM.

[gargurty]

On Perfidian i know it will absorb sc at the start, but when will ye wanna go sc+mb it? Or just nuke it down?

[Sechs]

In spite of the evidence so far I find it strange that these special NMs require a certain minimum KI Level to be popped.
It would be like saying "Gramk Droog doesn't pop under 128" (example).
Altough given the KI consumption it might make some sense I guess.

Are you guys really thoroughfully sure that's one of the pre-requisites for these NMs?
I guess you must be right, reading about how these cutscenes "tiers" and KIs work.

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, you need the KI to pop the NMs.

Also, perfidien absorbs the element weak to his current weakness. So if he is weak to fire, he absorbs ice.

And if it has not been posted yet, legs require 20 memories.

[gargurty]

I can confirm the needed Ki's: we tried to pop it and i was shy of 1 ki. Result no pop.
And on the things that need to be done like mb nuke etc, i can confirm on that too.

[Byrthnoth]

I popped it last night with only 2/3 of the Chamber KIs and Wings, so if that's what you mean then I can confirm you don't need all the KIs.

[Sechs]

Maybe the KI of the chamber you're currently doing when you attempt to pop it?

[Byrthnoth]

Scratch that, I only had 1/3 KIs when it popped. I got the one for the current chamber after we killed it when we cleared the rest of the zone.

[shepardG]

Is it possible that all 3 zones have hidden bosses? The third being just used to bulid a final pop for the boss that drops that bad ass body piece?
Also im pooping right this minute as i type this....so think about that also.

[Sechs]

Are Perfidian and Plouton "zone-bound"? I thought they could be popped in any of the three zones, if you fulfill the required conditions, whatever they may be. Did I misunderstand?

[Wardeniii]

I guess it is just the nature of the event, but I would far prefer a more straightforward progression system, but harder bosses. I suppose it makes some bit of sense that the bosses themselves are a little easier since each kill only brings 2-3 119 pieces into the world, but still. As it stands, the leg NM dies in 2 minutes or less, and even though we know the progression of message upgrades for the legs, the same scheme doesn't seem to be working for body.

I'm sure after we get it locked down it will be simple to spam, but until then the idea of aimlessly trying to get message changes via avatar/beast jug/chi blast/raiden thrust while standing on one leg with 50% or less HP on darksday doesn't seem terribly appealing.

[Zerowone]

Are Perfidian and Plouton "zone-bound"? I thought they could be popped in any of the three zones, if you fulfill the required conditions, whatever they may be. Did I misunderstand?

They may or may not be bound but the conditions to pop Perfidien are easier to achieve in duskbrood. You get the message while in possession of the ashenwing KI in all 3 chambers. I would assume the same will happen with regard to the false king KI and its messages.

Being that you don't loose the prototype ashen wing KI when obtaining a prototype false king one would speculate that Perfidien will need to popped and killed on a run before you can start meeting the requirements to get the crimson/blood messages. Makes sense given the 15min extension you receive for killing Perfidien. Wouldn't be a stretch to presume Plouton gives a time extension after being defeated as well allowing you to complete the run.

I notice there is some confusion on how these pop mechanics work with respect to comments about PUGs possibly doing it.
The only way it can happen is if the person who entered that group is in possession of an Ashenwing/False King KI which can only be obtained by clearing all three zones or even possibly exploiting the known issue of logging out and back in magically generating KIs (if I read the known issue list right) at random.

[Fwahm]

Is it possible that instead of a 4 step double light being needed, just a 4 step skillchain is enough? I haven't seen anyone reporting trying to go 1>2>3, only 2>3>3.

[Byrthnoth]

So the "Darkness" messages seemed pretty unrelated to the corresponding conditions, which makes sense because we aren't supposed to know what they are until after we meet the conditions already.

All the "Darkness" messages were related to magical damage in one way or another (normal casting magic, magic bursts, skillchain magic damage). Perhaps the Blood ones will be related to physical damage?

[Wardeniii]

Could be that they relate to physical - seems like those would be the easiest/most likely to happen naturally though, and we were still getting the first blood message in response to ~10 magic kills.

[Zerowone]

Could be a connection to the Abyssea light system. Given there is a minor correlation in the event is used to upgrade the armor etc....

If doubling the values of the variables required on Perfidien do no work then try the variables of melee killshot, physical WS kill shot and magical Ws kill shots x amount of times.

[Sephiran]

I have to ask: Has anyone tried to use forms of sleep as an efficient method of mob control? As I said earlier, I had a miserable experience on PLD my first time in doing this event. I wonder though if it would be possible for someone as SCH/WHM to efficiently Repose the fomors as an SCH/BLM sleeps them in Incursion. By all means, if they aren't immune (or possess that flavor of resistance such that only Stymie or Elemental Seal ensure that the spells land), it could be an efficient mechanism to control the mobs. Of course, it would require a divine magic skill set and/or a general M.ACC set (that can be made from Hagondes and Delve II gear).

[Harukasakura]

Im not sure if it was posted yet. We already know that Elemental gate is Magic -> Magicburst -> Skillchain for Perifiden, but we also sucessfully popped him on Leech/slime gate with Melee kills -> Magicburst -> skillchain. So my hypophesis is that 3rd gate might be same conditions but with ranged attack kills as 1st instead of magic or melee. Probably worth a try

[The Assman]

Being that you don't loose the prototype ashen wing KI when obtaining a prototype false king one would speculate that Perfidien will need to popped and killed on a run before you can start meeting the requirements to get the crimson/blood messages. Makes sense given the 15min extension you receive for killing Perfidien. Wouldn't be a stretch to presume Plouton gives a time extension after being defeated as well allowing you to complete the run.

I think instead of TE, Plouton will severely weaken the zone boss. From the official Adoulin site (which has been updated for Vagary, but still says there is no Alluvion Skirmish in Yorcia lol):

The final guardians' full strength is unfathomable, but it is said that defeating a certain creature in the maze will greatly weaken them.

Or maybe that's referring to stuff like the macuil boss absorbing elements.

[Magitek]

That sounds more like a way to weaken the zone boss, yeah.