Kickstarter: Hansen Vs. Predator (To Catch a Predator reboot)

[Melena]

Well being that I haven't had to do that for several years, and how you described it wasn't even how it went. We met at a mall, got something to eat and I asked for her ID. Working security prior, I knew what was and wasn't a false california ID and confirmed. The making out in the car was shortly after that.

[Ksandra]

Well people do go to a bar to hook up. If they see someone in there and they are drinking, you are naturally going to assume they are fair game.

That is not the bar's fault.

Yes, but the bar broke the law by allowing a place for such a situation to even occur when they are required to prevent it.

Bars are not carding people to prevent underage sex. They are carding people to prevent underage drinking.


You guys can argue about whether there is a difference between a teen who is 17 and 364 days old and an 18 year old until the cows come home. I would probably actually agree with you on that part. I do think laws should take into consideration the maturity level of said teen on how much they were aware of what they were doing.

But that is between the two people having sex, not the place they happen to meet at.

[Melena]

Yes, but if you go to a place where there is a minimum age, in this case 21, you therefore can reasonably expect that a person you are flirting with or is flirting with you to be at least 21.

[Kaslo]

Yes, but if you go to a place where there is a minimum age, in this case 21, you therefore can reasonably expect that a person you are flirting with or is flirting with you to be at least 21.

or at least 18+

[Ksandra]

Yes, but if you go to a place where there is a minimum age, in this case 21, you therefore can reasonably expect that a person you are flirting with or is flirting with you to be at least 21.

You can also reasonably expect that fake ID's exist.

Do you personally know the bouncer? Why are you putting your fate in a stranger's hands?

Again, I can understand mistakes can happen. But seriously, trying to put blame on the bar for underage sex sounds an awful lot of trying to avoid responsibility for your own actions.

[Melena]

You can also reasonably expect that fake ID's exist.

Do you personally know the bouncer? Why are you putting your fate in a stranger's hands?

Again, I can understand mistakes can happen. But seriously, trying to put blame on the bar for underage sex sounds an awful lot of trying to avoid responsibility for your own actions.

I don't think the bar should be blamed, and maybe I should have explained myself better, but I also strongly believe that if you go home with someone at the bar, and they lied to the bar and you about their age, that you shouldn't get busted for statutory rape cause of the other person lying about their age.

[Ksandra]

I don't think the bar should be blamed, and maybe I should have explained myself better, but I also strongly believe that if you go home with someone at the bar, and they lied to the bar and you about their age, that you shouldn't get busted for statutory rape cause of the other person lying about their age.

You guys can argue about whether there is a difference between a teen who is 17 and 364 days old and an 18 year old until the cows come home. I would probably actually agree with you on that part. I do think laws should take into consideration the maturity level of said teen on how much they were aware of what they were doing.

But that is between the two people having sex, not the place they happen to meet at.

.

I am strictly responding to someone's idea that the bar is partially to blame.

While I agree with your statement, a chick who is going to be good about lying about her age doesn't need a bar to help her. I am just trying to show that the place is irrelevant and shouldn't be factored in at all when decideing who is at fault (or what percentage at fault).

[Koul]

You can also reasonably expect that fake ID's exist.

Do you personally know the bouncer? Why are you putting your fate in a stranger's hands?

Again, I can understand mistakes can happen. But seriously, trying to put blame on the bar for underage sex sounds an awful lot of trying to avoid responsibility for your own actions.

But it is the bars fault and the person lying with the fake ID. I'm guessing you don't go out and mingle at bars too much because your expectation of being on-guard 100% of the time and always assuming that cutey across the way isn't of age is unrealistic and unreasonable. Unless during conversation they drop freudian slips on their true age, one can safely assume they're of age.

[Aksannyi]

That's really one of those things that needs to be looked at on a case-by-case, not everything is black and white basis. Statutory rape is terrible but someone being labeled a predator who had no idea he was being one is also terrible. Protecting minors is important, but I think that's one of those situations where a lot of people would assume culpability. Should the man (who we are assuming is the predator, but it could of course be a woman) be able to prove that he reasonably believed the woman to be of age, and can demonstrate somehow (security tapes, witnesses) that he verified her age, then that should absolve some of the responsibility. In that case, someone should be investigating the bar and why someone who was underage was able to gain access.

That's not necessarily blaming the bar for the sexual encounter, but they need to shoulder some of that responsibility or at the very least be fined for letting someone underage in. That's the law, and they broke it. It indirectly led to another crime being committed. We can't ignore that. And if we crack down on businesses that allow underage people in, the incidences where people get tricked (for lack of a better term) into fucking someone underage can be reduced. But I don't think this is that common a situation. It's all hypothetical (which is great, I love hypotheticals), but something that could reasonably happen which makes it worth exploring.

Do I think the bar is directly responsible? No. But I do think there's an indirect responsibility that they carry.

[Ksandra]

your expectation of being on-guard 100% of the time and always assuming that cutey across the way isn't of age is unrealistic and unreasonable.

Quote me where in the fuck you got that idea from what I've said. In fact, I have stated twice now that in situations like that should be looked on a case by case basis between the adult and the teen.

at the very least be fined for letting someone underage in. That's the law, and they broke it.

I completely agree with this statement. They should be fined for letting a minor in an area where only 21+ is allowed because of alcohol laws. There are zero laws that say 17 (and under) year olds cannot mingle with adults. In fact, there is no law that says a 17 or under cannot date an adult. They just cannot have sex with them. Bars are not selling sex. It is not the bar that is pushing people to meet up and have sex.

It indirectly led to another crime being committed. We can't ignore that.

We can pay attention to it to decide what the teen willingly did, sure, but we shouldn't use it as a reason to place blame on the bar.

[Spicyryan]

.

I am strictly responding to someone's idea that the bar is partially to blame.

While I agree with your statement, a chick who is going to be good about lying about her age doesn't need a bar to help her. I am just trying to show that the place is irrelevant and shouldn't be factored in at all when decideing who is at fault (or what percentage at fault).

Needing help or not is completely irrelevant. The place (the bar) is only relevant because there was a law they shouldn't be there.

Obviously the fault is on the person sleeping with the underage individual who snuck in. Just like it is my fault is I get stuck with counterfeit money or if I let someone drive my car and they get into a wreck. However, the reason I say the bar has a part in this is because they are enabling. Without them failing to do their duty it couldn't happen in the first place.

[Byrthnoth]

Hey bros, if the girl you sleep with lies to you then you are having sex under false pretenses and it meets one of the many definitions of rape. So if a minor rapes you, did you commit statutory rape?

[Ksandra]

How about we blame the shithead with the fake ID, rather than the place they used it at.

Bars don't want to get fined for breaking the laws in regards to alcohol. There are huge fines for it. They try to be very careful. Their punishment when they make a mistake should be restricted to the actions said teen did at the bar. Not what the teen did an hour after they left. Blame the teen for tricking multiple people. Bar should not be at fault for rapes that happen off their premises.

[Kaslo]

Quote me where in the fuck you got that idea from what I've said. In fact, I have stated twice now that in situations like that should be looked on a case by case basis between the adult and the teen.



I completely agree with this statement. They should be fined for letting a minor in an area where only 21+ is allowed because of alcohol laws. There are zero laws that say 17 (and under) year olds cannot mingle with adults. In fact, there is no law that says a 17 or under cannot date an adult. They just cannot have sex with them. Bars are not selling sex. It is not the bar that is pushing people to meet up and have sex.



We can pay attention to it to decide what the teen willingly did, sure, but we shouldn't use it as a reason to place blame on the bar.

Technically, I think no state has an age of consent over 17 (but may be wrong, its been a while since researching)

[Melena]

Technically, I think no state has an age of consent over 17 (but may be wrong, its been a while since researching)

California is 18

[Koul]

Bar should not be at fault for rapes that happen off their premises.

sorry, my reading comprehension sucks ass. I agree with this and I misinterpreted what you were saying earlier in the thread.

[Spicyryan]

How about we blame the shithead with the fake ID, rather than the place they used it at.

Bars don't want to get fined for breaking the laws in regards to alcohol. There are huge fines for it. They try to be very careful. Their punishment when they make a mistake should be restricted to the actions said teen did at the bar. Not what the teen did an hour after they left. Blame the teen for tricking multiple people. Bar should not be at fault for rapes that happen off their premises.

If you have sex with someone who was drunk, and they wake up the next day ashamed of what they did. Then they can say they didn't want what they previously did and then you are now an alleged rapist pending trial.
Life isn't fair.

However, is the bar required to simply not serve alcohol to minors or keep them off premises completely? That would solve the whole debate.


Why are you so partial to the bar avoiding liability anyway?

[Ksandra]

However, is the bar required to simply not serve alcohol to minors or keep them off premises completely? That would solve the whole debate.

It is strictly based on how alcohol is served connected to the state's laws. That's why restaurants can have bars and still have kids on their premises. The kids just can't be in the bar area. What is defined by "bar area" is also going to vary state by state.

Why are you so partial to the bar avoiding liability anyway?

Because it sounds idiotic to me.

[Tyrath]

It's not an either or option. The bar can share some of the responsibility for failing to do it's job.

[Ksandra]

It's not an either or option. The bar can share some of the responsibility for failing to do it's job.

And it failed its job by letting someone underage onto their property where alcohol is served. (As I stated, I am perfectly fine with them being fined for that.) Not that they failed in preventing underage sex from happening off their property.