Kickstarter: Hansen Vs. Predator (To Catch a Predator reboot)

[Tyrath]

Sure. I'm not saying the bar should be faulted for the sex. But I am saying because they failed to do their job, it lessens the guilt of the older person involved because you should have relative assurance that someone underage wouldn't be getting served drinks.

[Zeb]

Pretty sure underage people can legally go anywhere in bars, if they owners let them. They just can't SELL to a minor. If the minor has a parent/guardian with them, they can drink alcohol there if it is OK with the rents/guardians and the owner of the establishment. Most places just put a shit ton of restrictions up to remove liability. The difference between no minors in an club vs some dad buying his 18yo kid a beer at his buddy's local pub. It's never going to be on the owner of the establishment.

[Aksannyi]

If the minor has a parent/guardian with them, they can drink alcohol there if it is OK with the rents/guardians and the owner of the establishment.

That's not true. Parents can give their children alcohol in their homes and be arrested for supplying alcohol to minors. Parental permission doesn't override the underage drinking laws.

[Ksandra]

Pretty sure underage people can legally go anywhere in bars, if they owners let them. They just can't SELL to a minor.

I mentioned laws vary state by state, and that is one of them.

I know in CT, you can do just as you said. I went to a restaurant/bar in CT and we always sat in the bar growing up since there was no wait (and we wanted happy hour nachos!) However, I believe CA has two different types of licenses where one says no one under 21 can enter.

[Ksandra]

That's not true. Parents can give their children alcohol in their homes and be arrested for supplying alcohol to minors. Parental permission doesn't override the underage drinking laws.

This is mosty incorrect, and also varies state to state:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_lif...h-parents.html

[Zeb]

I mentioned laws vary state by state, and that is one of them.

I know in CT, you can do just as you said. I went to a restaurant/bar in CT and we always sat in the bar growing up since there was no wait (and we wanted happy hour nachos!) However, I believe CA has two different types of licenses where one says no one under 21 can enter.

California should be its own fucking country with all it's bullshit laws too. >.> Can a <21yo work for any of the establishments that say no one under 21 can enter?

[Tyrath]

Pretty sure underage people can legally go anywhere in bars, if they owners let them. They just can't SELL to a minor. If the minor has a parent/guardian with them, they can drink alcohol there if it is OK with the rents/guardians and the owner of the establishment. Most places just put a shit ton of restrictions up to remove liability. The difference between no minors in an club vs some dad buying his 18yo kid a beer at his buddy's local pub. It's never going to be on the owner of the establishment.

Hypothetical in question has the underage person drinking at the bar.

[Ksandra]

California should be its own fucking country with all it's bullshit laws too. >.> Can a <21yo work for any of the establishments that say no one under 21 can enter?

Yes. haha.

Hypothetical in question has the underage person drinking at the bar.

Wait. Let me get this straight. Is it only the adult's fault if they don't notice there is no rum in that coke?

[Aksannyi]

This is mosty incorrect, and also varies state to state:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_lif...h-parents.html

I have never heard of minors ever being allowed to drink legally under any circumstances. Ever. I mean yeah it's been a while since I've been underage but ... damn.

[Zeb]

Hypothetical in question has the underage person drinking at the bar.

What's to say it isn't a non-alcoholic drink. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.


*edit* But to clarify, I do believe there are many cases where the elder of the two would be able to have a decent defense for believing a minor as an adult in a bar situation. Just playing devil's advocate.

[Ksandra]

I have never heard of minors ever being allowed to drink legally under any circumstances. Ever.

Of course you have...



Here's an article about the Massachusetts state supreme court clarifying the law saying parents can give their children alcohol:

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_235...allows-parents

[Aksannyi]

I don't even consider that drinking, lol.

[Ksandra]

What's to say it isn't a non-alcoholic drink. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.

It's ok Zeb, just drink their drink before you take them to bed. Just to be safe.

*edit* But to clarify, I do believe there are many cases where the elder of the two would be able to have a decent defense for believing a minor as an adult in a bar situation. Just playing devil's advocate.

I also agree with this. I don't want people thinking I assume it's the adult's fault 100%. For sure, if you are in a state that allows any age to go to a bar, I would definitely be even more on my toes to be careful.

But I do believe a 16/17 year old using a fake id to go into a bar and sleeping with an adult should not be 100% blameless. I just don't think the bar holds any of the percentage.

[Ksandra]

I don't even consider that drinking, lol.

In order to not consider that drinking, you'd have to say it's legally ok for a bar to give a kid a sip of beer.

You can't have it both ways, Aks.

[Tyrath]

What's to say it isn't a non-alcoholic drink. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.

It's not an assumption. You went up to the bar with her and bought her the drink while the bar was okay with it. I made the hypothetical up, I want to know people's opinions on a clear cut situation of a underage person drinking at a bar and then having sex. Don't need to add extra variables.

Edit: Just read your edit. Carry on.

[Aksannyi]

In order to not consider that drinking, you'd have to say it's legally ok for a bar to give a kid a sip of beer.

You can't have it both ways, Aks.

When people talk about drinking, they're not talking about communion wine. I'm certainly not even making that a consideration when I talk about underage drinking, especially when it relates to the aforementioned bar scenarios. That's so far removed from what we're even talking about that I don't even know why it's relevant? To prove me wrong?

Okay, kids are allowed to drink underage if it's communion, but I generally don't consider that as apart of an underage drinking argument.

I already read the link and saw that I was out of date on laws. I have never heard of legal drinking (religious shit excepted) for people who are underage even with permission of parents. I've always heard of the repercussions of giving minors alcohol to the point where I would never consider supplying alcohol to minors, even under a highly supervised environment. I don't know if this is just because of a change in laws or just the fact that underage drinking is demonized so much that they make it sound like the most terrible crime ever for giving alcohol to minors that I automatically assumed it was illegal, but I'll admit I'm wrong on that one.

But I'm still not ever thinking about communion wine when I talk about underage drinking and allowing minors in bars, I mean come on. Arguing semantics is pointless. I'm going to bed.

[Ksandra]

When people talk about drinking, they're not talking about communion wine. I'm certainly not even making that a consideration when I talk about underage drinking, especially when it relates to the aforementioned bar scenarios. That's so far removed from what we're even talking about that I don't even know why it's relevant?

You were the one that brought up drinking in the home. Not anyone else. You were the one that expanded the talk to outside of the bar.

And when you stress that you have never heard of underage kids being allowed to drink, "Under any circumstances. Ever," after you already expanded it to parents giving it to their kids in the home, that sounds pretty clear that you were including situations outside of a bar.


So, no need to get upset when I do prove those statements wrong. Don't backpedal and pretend when you said in the home you meant if the home was inside a bar.

[Koul]

Can a <21yo work for any of the establishments that say no one under 21 can enter?

I doubt it. I know at places like grocery stores someone has to be 19 to be a cashier if the place sells booze. But a full on 21+ bar would probably require the person to be 21 even if they're just a jello-shot boy/barback

[Melena]

At least in California, if you are not 21,you can't serve alcohol. If you are not 18 you can't sell cigarettes or lottery tickets.

[Aksannyi]

You were the one that brought up drinking in the home. Not anyone else. You were the one that expanded the talk to outside of the bar.

And when you stress that you have never heard of underage kids being allowed to drink, "Under any circumstances. Ever," after you already expanded it to parents giving it to their kids in the home, that sounds pretty clear that you were including situations outside of a bar.


So, no need to get upset when I do prove those statements wrong. Don't backpedal and pretend when you said in the home you meant if the home was inside a bar.

No, you are correct. I brought up the home. I didn't bring up church/communion. It's not something that I considered. I don't live in a religious context anymore and I haven't set foot inside of a church (aside from St. Peter's Basilica, which I was touring on vacation) in at least 7 years. It wasn't exactly something I was thinking of or considering when I was thinking about serving alcohol. You got me on it, I get that, but if you ask me about drinking in any context, I'm generally never going to think about church wine, because it simply isn't a part of my usual thought process.

But yes, you caught me. Church wine counts as serving to minors. It just wasn't something I was thinking or usually think about, is all.