"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you"

[Sho]

This is a well-thought perspective on the situation. When citizens are told time after time, "Work through the system to get your results," and the system continues to fail them, what other options do they have left to turn to? Even if we want to say that the people doing the actual destruction are taking advantage of the situation, the fact that the situation was created in the first place and figuring out how to rectify it is where we should be looking for solutions.

On the other side, the police are in an unwinnable position on the ground, partly because of the environment they contributed to over a history of years. They have a right to defend and protect themselves, but the best case scenario for them is that they don't make an already bad situation worse by escalating. The only way to fix this is for the systemic failures to be addressed. Without that, we're going to see this continue and probably happen in other cities too.

There are a couple of things the community need to realize before everyone can move forward:

1) Not everyone in their community is wholly good or for the cause of change. These people who do absolutely nothing but negative for the community needs to be locked up.
2) People need to assist the police in doing their job in locking up those who need to be locked up. That including being that guy/gal who runs at the police to report a crime being committed.
3) This is everyone's struggle. Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Indian. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu. Straight, gay, transexual.
4) Officers are human too. They have families to go home to as well at the end of the day. They need to be respected as much as any other person who works for the community.
5) Destroying and looting property to serve as a message does absolutely nothing except paint the picture that those who are committing these crimes are savages (or animals).
6) Attacking the police in such a manner as throwing debris or water bottles or even firing upon them also does nothing in furthering the message. It also leads city officials into continuing their draconian laws.

[Xajii]

So you are condoning the cutting of fire hoses as first responders are attempting to put out fires caused by the looters and vandals.

Baltimore marched peacefully 2 months ago but you didn't hear about that.

I don't condone it, but I understand it. You can be obtuse and bring up the worst of it to try and make your point but my argument stands. I understand where the violence comes from and frankly it got the cameras to come so that's sort of step 1.

I wish Baltimore could be as organized as DC in the 90s and have a million man march but the fact fo the matter is as soon as word got out about that shit brewing up these cops would riot gear it up and shove their shields in faces until everyone either went home or someone cast the first stone and we'd be here anyway. That's how it is these days.

Forgive me for preferring this to continuing to live in a city where the protectors murder the protected and the law is built to incriminate the majority.

Again, you all act like there's some third option, but what is it? Peace didn't work.

[notorious bum]

He's not asking you a real question, merely mimicking the behavior that he learned from pundits on television. Hard-ball questioning, right here!

[Xajii]

There are a couple of things the community need to realize before everyone can move forward:

1) Not everyone in their community is wholly good or for the cause of change. These people who do absolutely nothing but negative for the community needs to be locked up.

Lovely sentiment, but completely useless thought in practice. Good luck with that. No shit that not everyone is wholly good. What's your point? There's no point to this. We dont' even have the police force to handle the peace, much less the violence righ now.

2) People need to assist the police in doing their job in locking up those who need to be locked up. That including being that guy/gal who runs at the police to report a crime being committed.

Again, there aren't enough police. They're asking for 5,000 more officers and we haven't gotten it yet. The officers are working 20-24+ hour shifts. Fuck you gonna do, run to one of the men in a line and tell em some dude over on Pennsylvania is throwing a chair? Doesn't do shit, doesn't mean shit.

3) This is everyone's struggle. Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Indian. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu. Straight, gay, transexual.

Plenty of culture at the protests, but it's losing perspective to act like the main sufferers are anyone but the black people. This is a majority black city and every single statistic you can look at shows that the black people are the ones usffering eocnomically, justice system-wise, education-wise, health-wise, and so on. Let's not forget that just for the sake of some bigger picture please.

4) Officers are human too. They have families to go home to as well at the end of the day. They need to be respected as much as any other person who works for the community.

I agree that this is important but the police force lost respect of the public a long time ago and they continue to dig the hole deeper by their awful response tot he actions of their own. Like I said earlier, even my friend - who I know is a good person and just cares about the community - is sharing shitty facebook graphics to try and victim blame Freddie Gray. It's fucked, and it's just not as simple as "respect the police". They don't. And for good reason.

5) Destroying and looting property to serve as a message does absolutely nothing except paint the picture that those who are committing these crimes are savages (or animals).

Well, it got people talking about baltimore more than I've ever heard. So I disagree. And no, despite what watching CNN might have you believe, the conversation ISN'T just "look at these animals".

6) Attacking the police in such a manner as throwing debris or water bottles or even firing upon them also does nothing in furthering the message. It also leads city officials into continuing their draconian laws.

Very few instances of this happening thus far, and whenever it has happened, there are twice as many people telling them to stop. Look anywhere on youtube for examples of that.
It has happened though, and will continue to happen, and of course I agree with the sentiment you share.

I know it sounds like I'm coming here defending riots and violence but I just want everyone tot hink about how complex this situation is and WHY Baltimore rioted, because that's what matters most. I wish it didn't come to this and I certainly wish that people who resorted to violence could have found some other way but I can't think of one and neither could they. They're angry, hurt, scared, pent up, and this is one fo the most natural reactions there is for such a situation. It sucks, but Baltimore did this to itself

[Sho]

It's just unfortunate that shit has to go down before the message gets started. How many tragedies have to happen before a community begins to move for change? It has to start with city & state officials putting far more resources into correcting these problems outside of simply policing. The law and justice system needs to also be placed under review and cleaned up as well.

[Xajii]

no resources given to education or community reform or health or public improvement ->
only people actually voting are white people who care about the white people type platforms ->
people get voted in who don't give a fuck about the poor and black communities (but often black themselves since it helps win and makes u seem like u care) ->
no resources given to education or community reform or health or public improvement

[Sho]

Lovely sentiment, but completely useless thought in practice. Good luck with that. No shit that not everyone is wholly good. What's your point? There's no point to this. We dont' even have the police force to handle the peace, much less the violence righ now.

Sorry about that, I'm speaking in retrospect. Of course right now, for Baltimore it's too late to address this problem immediately or even for a while after protests die down. The point is to realize people in the community (like this one) are bad too. If you want the system to be changed in a community needs to also work from the inside as well. That means proactively rooting out these problems before it culminates into something like this.

Again, there aren't enough police. They're asking for 5,000 more officers and we haven't gotten it yet. The officers are working 20-24+ hour shifts. Fuck you gonna do, run to one of the men in a line and tell em some dude over on Pennsylvania is throwing a chair? Doesn't do shit, doesn't mean shit.

See the beginning of my first response (speaking in retrospect). What can be done at this point and time is getting more youth leaders to go out there and talk to the people and serve as a barrier between the protestors and the police. Lets be honest, it's not going to stop unrest every where in the city but at least it keep violence to the minimum where they are.

Plenty of culture at the protests, but it's losing perspective to act like the main sufferers are the black people. This is a majority black city and every single statistic you can look at shows that the black people are the ones usffering eocnomically, justice system-wise, education-wise, health-wise, and so on. Let's not forget that just for the sake of some bigger picture please.

It's not a loss of perspective. Yes, black people are suffering, but it's not unlike any other struggle that exists in the world. When I say it's a struggle that encompasses multiple races, I mean that leaders and people of various descent have to also take part in correcting the problem.

I agree that this is important but the police force lost respect of the public a long time ago and they continue to dig the hole deeper by their awful response tot he actions of their own. Like I said earlier, even my friend - who I know is a good person and just cares about the community - is sharing shitty facebook graphics to try and victim blame Freddie Gray. It's fucked, and it's just not as simple as "respect the police". They don't. And for good reason.

This I can agree with. They don't respect the police at all with good reason. However, when will the time come when they do? When do they want to stop giving officers shit and instead start to work with them? The conversation has to begin on both sides for anything to happen. The respect has to be there. Someone on either side has to finally step in with the mindset of "I will rise above what's going on and reach my hand across the isle to connect with these dudes." If not this, we will just continue to see an endless cycle of the police mistreating the community and the community disrespecting the police.

Well, it got people talking about baltimore more than I've ever heard. So I disagree. And no, despite what watching CNN might have you believe, the conversation ISN'T just "look at these animals".

I'm using an example that can be easily used by any random person who is insensitive to what is actually going on. Examples like this are even littered in this thread alone. People are looting and destroying their own city and neighborhoods? Best believe that people will use that as a reason to dehumanize them and call them something lesser than human.

I know it sounds like I'm coming here defending riots and violence but I just want everyone tot hink about how complex this situation is and WHY Baltimore rioted, because that's what matters most. I wish it didn't come to this and I certainly wish that people who resorted to violence could have found some other way but I can't think of one and neither could they. They're angry, hurt, scared, pent up, and this is one fo the most natural reactions there is for such a situation. It sucks, but Baltimore did this to itself

I know you aren't defending riots, my mans. You're a cool dude with your head on your shoulders. I also realize that you are in stress over what's happening to your city. I think anyone here in the same mindset would respond the way you are. The problem is complex yes, but it's not a situation which is unique to Baltimore. We can go back into last year or even 50+ years and see similar situations which lead to these riots. There was a lot of time since Ferguson and this still came about. The problems are systemic but it's up to city and state officials to look at these situations and become proactive in the first place (like reviewing their police force and rules, body cameras) so it doesn't get so bad. Unfortunately, Baltimore, like many other cities have officials who just don't give a fuck until shit hits the fan and they have to rush around to do damage control.

[Spicyryan]

Nobody is calling for violence as the answer, except the trigger-happy police chiefs that view their city as a warzone and the outside agitators that suffer from PTSD. The blue shield is long overdue for a systemic rebuilding from the ground up. Until we stop witnessing cops get away with murder, manslaughter, torture, and assault on a near-daily basis, the calling for peace will remain a sick joke to PoC in this nation.

Yeah, pretty sure there are plenty of people calling for violence aside from police.

[Chun Liroy]

I agree with Xajii, well said.

I found this on reddit and felt it needed to be shared. I also agree with it completely.
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comm...hen_it/cqqxlit

[Abandon]

is there a tl;dr version

[notorious bum]

Dave Zirin @EdgeofSports

My latest on how deeply appropriate it is for Orioles to play games at Camden Yards in front of an empty stadium. http://bit.ly/1QFSCnL

[Xantavia]

This I can agree with. They don't respect the police at all with good reason. However, when will the time come when they do? When do they want to stop giving officers shit and instead start to work with them? The conversation has to begin on both sides for anything to happen. The respect has to be there. Someone on either side has to finally step in with the mindset of "I will rise above what's going on and reach my hand across the isle to connect with these dudes." If not this, we will just continue to see an endless cycle of the police mistreating the community and the community disrespecting the police.

I think this is the key step in changing things. We need a real world Naruto and his power of friendship. Somebody who can stop using the past to justify what is being done now. Otherwise, I see the circular nature of the cycle. Young cop wants to do the right thing, but is given grief by the community because of treatment in the past. Young kid is harassed by a now older cop, who then gets an us vs. them mentality.

[Cream Soda]

There's no excuse to destroy shit, steal, loot, etc; none.

A lot of people in power are fucked up. There is no excuse for that, either. Just because they abuse their power doesn't make rioting okay. Just because people are rioting, it doesn't excuse crooked people in power to act the way they do. Too many people put the blame only on one side of the fence.

There are fucked up people on BOTH sides.

What about the peaceful protestors? I'm not talking about them, as they're not being morons nor doing anything wrong.

[notorious bum]

Beat it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIIYrEMvZMU

Sorry, missed the guitar performer from yesterday at it again on live stream

[Chun Liroy]

is there a tl;dr version

He pretty much talks about how shitty reddit is with their perpetual racism and misguided views when it comes to events like this (using the riots to reaffirm their stereotypes of black people etc.), and I think to an extent that applies to this forum as well.

Here's a quote he wrote that I find the most important of what he said:

It's so easy to harken back to the days of MLK and say "oh MLK will be rolling in his grave" because you see uneducated blacks rioting stupidly. But what you fail to consider is that in MLK's time, the proof of racism was encoded into law so MLK could point and say "see, these laws are here to hold us down" and shit like that. He had a reciept to fall back on and point at as vindication. Now we are in a world of dog whistles. Where the police won't come out right and say they are hunitng black men but would say they are hunting "thugs" or "drug dealers' or "urban youths'. For every stupid shit the media decides to show "youths" doing, white teenagers do the same. Is it hunting people to beat up? Read up on the murder of James craig anderson in mississipi . How about the video of those group of white kids that were beating up the Asian kid in an alley?

It's also interesting to me because he grew up in Nigeria until 18, then lives in the UK for 10 years, US for 5 and Canada for 3 so he brings an interesting perspective in that sense.

[Chun Liroy]

There's no excuse to destroy shit, steal, loot, etc; none.

A lot of people in power are fucked up. There is no excuse for that, either. Just because they abuse their power doesn't make rioting okay. Just because people are rioting, it doesn't excuse crooked people in power to act the way they do. Too many people put the blame only on one side of the fence.

There are fucked up people on BOTH sides.

What about the peaceful protestors? I'm not talking about them, as they're not being morons nor doing anything wrong.

Holy shit this post. That last sentence is EXACTLY THE REASON WHY THERE ARE RIOTS.

No one is saying rioting is good or should be occurring, but it's the natural escalation when an impoverished city's inhabitants are not being heard by peaceful protest. It's a product of not being heard.

Watch this starting at a minute in.



Amazing how a 23 year old from 1994 has so much insight as to how communities and society STILL works in 2015. It's truly sad that the state of it hasn't changed since.

[Sho]

is there a tl;dr version

Bro, dont tl;dr it, its worth the read. Its all real talk in there.

[Cream Soda]

Holy shit this post. That last sentence is EXACTLY THE REASON WHY THERE ARE RIOTS.

No one is saying rioting is good or should be occurring, but it's the natural escalation when an impoverished city's inhabitants are not being heard by peaceful protest. It's a product of not being heard.

Watch this starting at a minute in.



Amazing how a 23 year old from 1994 has so much insight as to how communities and society STILL works in 2015. It's truly sad that the state of it hasn't changed since.

That's nobody's fault but the people as a whole. The media is a business, rather than a service to inform people. If people think peaceful protesting is boring and don't watch it, it's not going to get aired. If that shit got the most ratings, it'd be whats covered on every channel. All the people who change the channel on a peaceful protest and tune in to every riot are the reason why it doesn't get aired.

[Abandon]

if peaceful protests actually produced results, rioting wouldn't be a thing (other than those savage people who destroy property and local businesses after that guy they watched on tv lost the surf competition). fuck the media, let's look at it as it is.

[Chun Liroy]

That's nobody's fault but the people as a whole. The media is a business, rather than a service to inform people. If people think peaceful protesting is boring and don't watch it, it's not going to get aired. If that shit got the most ratings, it'd be whats covered on every channel. All the people who change the channel on a peaceful protest and tune in to every riot are the reason why it doesn't get aired.

So you think that news channels being a business rather than a service to inform people ISN'T a problem?