Time for a serious discussion about transracial issues?

[Blubbartron]

That's where the transgender and transracial interchangeability gets lost. First, any person who belongs to the majority race necessarily will have distinctly different experiences compared to everyone else. You can say you self-identify as whatever you want, but a white to black transracial isn't going to have to worry about being treated differently by the police because of their self-identified race. Second, males and females are fundamentally different by nature. While there are physical traits associated with being certain races, science has generally told us that there are no significant differences in physiology between the races. Having black skin or white skin does not change your fundamental experience of living life. So the whole inability to identify with your own body that transgender persons have is not the same. We already accept that some people can have life experiences that don't match their physical race (i.e. ethnicity vs. race).

Come on now, people may want to believe that race doesn't exist, but that's bullshit to anyone with common sense. Are the lines that we use to draw race arbitrary? Yes. Do things get blurry as people genetic traits (races) around when they were previously fairly pure? Sure. But there's as much difference between the races in humans as there is between different breeds of dogs. That's not to say that any set of traits is "better" than any other set of traits, but to suggest that there are no measurable differences is bullshit of an enormous scale.

Black people, in particular Jamaican black people, have substantially more fast twitch muscle fiber.
Ashkenazi Jews generally score higher on IQ tests.
Asians are typically shorter and have noticeably unique eyes.

Do I really need to go on? The differences are there, we just don't know about all of them because it's taboo to acknowledge they exist and scientifically measure them.

[Stilzkin]

But there's as much difference between the races in humans as there is between different breeds of dogs.

That shouldn't be the case. People haven't been bred for traits like dogs were.

[Blubbartron]

That shouldn't be the case. People haven't been bred for traits like dogs were.

Evolution happens even in the absence of artificial selection.

[Stilzkin]

Evolution happens even in the absence of artificial selection.

Saying we've evolved into different races like dogs have is just wrong.

[kuronosan]

No, it's not.

[Thunder]

That shouldn't be the case. People haven't been bred for traits like dogs were.

actually, <_< we know white americans for about 200 years did that with black slaves

[Andalusian girls]

that aside there still hasn't been near the amount of eugenics in human evolution as in doge evolution, there is no homo sapiens equivalent of the abomination that is an english bulldog

[Salodin]

Fuck you dude, English bulldogs are fucking adorable for the 4 years they live with out medical complications.

[Stilzkin]

actually, <_< we know white americans for about 200 years did that with black slaves

To what extent though?

My understanding of it is that it was a disorganized process and was never actually done on a massive scale.

Animal breeding on the other hand was an organized activity with breeders attempting to keep well documented archives and meet certain goals.

[Salodin]

This woman, as much of a liar as she is, has more then likely done more for African Americans in her lifetime than every one in this thread combined. How does that weigh into this discussion?

So she lied; her white lies have enabled her to do more for the African race than most Africans themselves have. I think that counts for something. What's telling is she would never have been allowed to contribute in such a way if she labeled herself Caucasian from the start, which is highly ironic all things considered.

[Green]

This woman, as much of a liar as she is, has more then likely done more for African Americans in her lifetime than every one in this thread combined.

Don't believe Ondore's lies.

[Thunder]

you said humans were never bred like dogs, don't try and spin this on me as if you said from the beginning they weren't bred for as long as dogs have been, by so much of the world people, and in such an organized fashion!


post was basically a joke btw, a response like that is 100% semantics, I knew what you meant. 200 years of breeding =/= hundreds of thousands in segregated lands

[Salodin]

But I mean, it does. Just because one was natural and the other artificial doesn't mean dog breeds are a thing and race isn't.

[Thunder]

What's "it" in your post? There were 2 points you could be referring to afaik

What he inferred in his response was that:
slave breeding in the US was ~200 years - dogs have been bred for longer (stronger effect)
slave breeding in the US was done by only US men in the south who owned a plantation (that's very few) - dogs have been bred by idk how many places
slave breeding in the US was done in a disorganized fashion, every plantation owner did his own shit - dog breeders kept records and bred according to that

What I meant when I said "200 years of breeding =/= hundreds of thousands in segregated lands" wasn't a natural vs artificial, it was just that the hundreds of thousands of years created changes that don't compare to 200 years of breeding in magnitude. Which.. idk actually, maybe they do. I can't actually speak for that, idk much about how powerful breeding is with regards to facts

[thetruepandagod]

Do I really need to go on?

Yes go on forever, you even left out how asians have less apocrine sweat glands than other races, so make sure to stock up on deodorant prior to a trip. Also Redheads require different levels of painkillers than others, and black people keloid scar easier than others. Lot's of neat little things.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Also Redheads require different levels of painkillers than others

This was fun to discover when they took my "wisdom teeth" out (not actually wisdom teeth, since I was born without them developing, but normal molars ended up causing the same problem). I woke up from anesthesia in the middle of it. For a LONG time, I didn't believe that Tylenol and Asiprin or the like worked, because I never noticed them making a difference with the recommended amounts.

Not a red-head, but my dad (and literally no one else in my family) is; I'm blond, though I have a very red beard.

Also:

that aside there still hasn't been near the amount of eugenics in human evolution as in doge evolution, there is no homo sapiens equivalent of the abomination that is an english bulldog

Have you seen the British? It's like they bred bulldogs because they ran out of mirrors.

[thetruepandagod]

Have you seen the British? It's like they bred bulldogs because they ran out of mirrors.

oi gobby we git fine plent laht o tidy tarts deservin a rumpy pumpy if i eva

[Gredival]

Come on now, people may want to believe that race doesn't exist, but that's bullshit to anyone with common sense. Are the lines that we use to draw race arbitrary? Yes. Do things get blurry as people genetic traits (races) around when they were previously fairly pure? Sure. But there's as much difference between the races in humans as there is between different breeds of dogs. That's not to say that any set of traits is "better" than any other set of traits, but to suggest that there are no measurable differences is bullshit of an enormous scale.

Black people, in particular Jamaican black people, have substantially more fast twitch muscle fiber.
Ashkenazi Jews generally score higher on IQ tests.
Asians are typically shorter and have noticeably unique eyes.

Do I really need to go on? The differences are there, we just don't know about all of them because it's taboo to acknowledge they exist and scientifically measure them.

As I stated "...there are physical traits associated with being certain races, science has generally told us that there are no significant differences in physiology between the races. Having black skin or white skin does not change your fundamental experience of living life."

The point is not to say there's no difference between the races, it's that differences in the experience of living life as black or Asian or Jew is not at all equivalent to the difference of living life as a male or a female.

Transgender persons have fundamental problems with identifying with their body. I really doubt that any transracial person has a legitimate claim to the same degree of dissociation stemming from their having different complexion or the shape of their eyes.

And we already have a concept for someone who, despite being one race, is raised/immersed in another culture and identifies with that culture more than their ancestral race. It's called ethnicity.

[tyven]

U guys what about the sickle cells and the Asian glow?

[Marootsoobutsu]

As I stated "...there are physical traits associated with being certain races, science has generally told us that there are no significant differences in physiology between the races. Having black skin or white skin does not change your fundamental experience of living life."

The point is not to say there's no difference between the races, it's that differences in the experience of living life as black or Asian or Jew is not at all equivalent to the difference of living life as a male or a female.

Transgender persons have fundamental problems with identifying with their body. I really doubt that any transracial person has a legitimate claim to the same degree of dissociation stemming from their having different complexion or the shape of their eyes.

And we already have a concept for someone who, despite being one race, is raised/immersed in another culture and identifies with that culture more than their ancestral race. It's called ethnicity.

What I'm getting here is that you have a lack of imagination.

*YOU* "really doubt". That's neat: what do YOUR assumptions have to do with another person's self-identification? There are lots of people who "really doubt" that homosexuality isn't at least partially a choice (and that even if the attraction is not, acting on it certainly is). There are lots of people who "really doubt" that you can change your gender, or that gender is fluid. We have a HUGE emphasis in the West on sexual identity, on the importance of sex, of sex sex sex sex sex. Of COURSE disassociations are going to hit a lot of people hard on those fronts when they aren't in the "norm". While we have some emphasis on race, it's no where near to the same degree in its "In your face"ness. But, it's also just something that many people take for granted.

Cool-- you had an interesting background, and don't feel like it's a thing. Lots of people have interesting backgrounds that you'd think would open them to something, but it doesn't. Not necessarily, anyway.

This person does not seem to be making a mock protest. She doesn't seem to have done this for the simple, "SEE?!?! SLIPPERY SLOPE F*GS! CHECK MATE!" kind of play. This is someone who has clearly put this as part of her identity. This is someone who has based her career, and her passion, around this identity. What makes ANYONE'S experience or identity more authentic, or more real, than hers? Is there not room in human psychology for THAT kind of thing? She's very definitely not HURTING the black community; based on her catalog of work, she seems to be helping a great many people.


Also: ethnicity is often tied to race, and isn't really associated with the idea of "being a different race" than the norm for it. And, quite often, those folks are ostracized-- race traitor's a nice phrase thrown around for that kind of thing.