Time for a serious discussion about transracial issues?

[Tyche]

I just want to be black for my doctoral application. Is that so bad?

[Galkaeater]

Mindy Kaling's brother actually did that.

[Gredival]

What I'm getting here is that you have a lack of imagination.

*YOU* "really doubt". That's neat: what do YOUR assumptions have to do with another person's self-identification? There are lots of people who "really doubt" that homosexuality isn't at least partially a choice (and that even if the attraction is not, acting on it certainly is). There are lots of people who "really doubt" that you can change your gender, or that gender is fluid. We have a HUGE emphasis in the West on sexual identity, on the importance of sex, of sex sex sex sex sex. Of COURSE disassociations are going to hit a lot of people hard on those fronts when they aren't in the "norm". While we have some emphasis on race, it's no where near to the same degree in its "In your face"ness. But, it's also just something that many people take for granted.

Except that the whole "races are just different" thing was used scientific justification for racism and has been pretty much thoroughly debunked. The recognized physiological differences between races are minute and almost entirely physical (afaik there are a very few mental illnesses/conditions with different incidence rates amongst different races, but nothing comparable to the way male and females develop).

So if we were to assume racial dissociation existed, it's almost certain that the dissociative effect would not be comparable to that of gender dissociation because the gap between the races is smaller than the gap between the sexes.

Cool-- you had an interesting background, and don't feel like it's a thing. Lots of people have interesting backgrounds that you'd think would open them to something, but it doesn't. Not necessarily, anyway.

The point, which you apparently missed, was to highlight the argument made in the image bum posted. Part of being "X race" inheres in the experience in and of itself of living as X race -- how people regard you and how your life experiences are different just because of your ancestry.

Which is something that transracial persons will never get.

This person does not seem to be making a mock protest. She doesn't seem to have done this for the simple, "SEE?!?! SLIPPERY SLOPE F*GS! CHECK MATE!" kind of play. This is someone who has clearly put this as part of her identity. This is someone who has based her career, and her passion, around this identity. What makes ANYONE'S experience or identity more authentic, or more real, than hers? Is there not room in human psychology for THAT kind of thing? She's very definitely not HURTING the black community; based on her catalog of work, she seems to be helping a great many people.

See above. No one is questioning the validity of her experiences. But as I pointed out, using myself as an example, in the end her experiences aren't white or black. They are simply her experiences.

Also: ethnicity is often tied to race, and isn't really associated with the idea of "being a different race" than the norm for it. And, quite often, those folks are ostracized-- race traitor's a nice phrase thrown around for that kind of thing.

Yes the concepts are interrelated, and there is usually a giant overlap between those who consider themselves ethincally X and racially X. But ethnicity and race aren't synonyms and that's important.

This is a good quote from a George Mason University prof. on the topic

Ethnicity isn't just a question of affiliation; it's also a question of choice. It's also a question of group membership ... Today people identify with ethnicity positively because they see themselves as being part of that group. People can't just simply say, "Well, I want to become a member of that race." You either are or are not a member of that race. Whereas, if you wanted to look at ethnicity based on culture, you could learn a language, you can learn customs - there are things that you can learn so that you could belong to that group. I think the most powerful argument about the differentiation between race and ethnicity is that race becomes institutionalized in a way that has profound social consequences on the members of different groups.

While this woman clearly, and legitimately, identifies ethnically as African that's different than saying she's (trans)-racially African.

To bring this back around to the "hypocrisy" argument about transgender acceptance vs. transracial, I'd sum it up like this. Self-identifying gender is like self-identifying with an ethnicity, but self-identifying race would be like self-identifying sex. The first set is not like the second set. The second set relates to immutable historical facts that can't be changed on a whim.

[Vandalhart]

So how far are we from trans-speciesism?

There's already a group of people out there that like to dress like animals at conventions, wear animal styled accessories out in public. That doesn't even include the furries. Could this eventually be a thing?

I think most of this can be solved with one thing:
People letting other people do what they want to do to be happy with themselves, and respecting them enough to not be an asshole about it. I really don't see why people have problems with this.

In the end, what someone else does with their life in terms of race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender, beliefs or ideology has no bearing on my own personal day to day activities so why would I care what they do with their body or how they live their life. Sometimes people can get preachy about their beliefs or ideology, but as long as they aren't cramming it down other people's throats or getting up on a soapbox telling everyone else they're wrong, I think they're doing it right.

[Sho]

In the end, what someone else does with their life in terms of race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender, beliefs or ideology has no bearing on my own personal day to day activities so why would I care what they do with their body or how they live their life. Sometimes people can get preachy about their beliefs or ideology, but as long as they aren't cramming it down other people's throats or getting up on a soapbox telling everyone else they're wrong, I think they're doing it right.

Essentially this is a problem with a lot of GOP on right wing. Champions "personal freedom," but against same sex marriages, abortions, transgenders, just about anything non-Christian, legalized marijuana, etc. They in turn cram both their "personal freedom" ideology and the fact that they are against all those aforementioned things at the same time.

[Gredival]

So how far are we from trans-speciesism?

There's already a group of people out there that like to dress like animals at conventions, wear animal styled accessories out in public. That doesn't even include the furries. Could this eventually be a thing?

I think the hardcore furries that actually dress up and go to conventions already claim this.

[Headspace]

a lot of people think i am black but i definitely consider myself white

We are all disappointed when we find out you are not black.

[tyven]

We are all disappointed when we find out you are not black.

imagine how i felt

[Spicyryan]

Wouldn't you have to be thinking in a racist way to say you feel like you are White, Mexican, etc?
I mean there's no 'white people feel this and i feel this too therefore I am white' sort of thing.
In the case of being adopted. You are just identifying with different cultural aspects other than what you feel.
I mean if I said I feel black while eating fried chicken then it just be racist remark even if I felt black in my heart of hearts.
Maybe I just don't understand wanting to be another race because really there's no way a race acts unless you stereotype.
Look at all the varying Asian cultures. I eat with chopsticks often, but that doesn't make me think I'm being Asian or identify as one. Only a few certain ones use chopsticks.
Anime nerds aren't transracial because they have a pinup of of Hachune Miku on their ceiling.

This issue is pretty stupid really.

[Gredival]

Maybe I just don't understand wanting to be another race because really there's no way a race acts unless you stereotype.

Ding ding ding.

To argue that people are transracial, beyond the degree of adopting cultural aspects of other ethnicites, is to imply there are definitive certain ways that being a certain race is different.

And that's just not backed up by science. What separates the races is very different than what separates, say, men and women.

[Spicyryan]

Ding ding ding.

To argue that people are transracial, beyond the degree of adopting cultural aspects of other ethnicites, is to imply there are definitive certain ways that being a certain race is different.

And that's just not backed up by science. What separates the races is very different than what separates, say, men and women.

Oh shit, evolution of racism.

No you can't fire me from my job for my racist rant on Facebook. I'm transracial and identify with this race.

[kuronosan]

I just want to be black for my doctoral application. Is that so bad?

I see what you did there.

[Niiro]

Back in my day we just called them wiggers.

[Cantih]

imagine how i felt

[Galkaeater]

step one get a perm
step two use too much fake tan

[Kalmado]

step one get a perm
step two use too much fake tan

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ons-Damn-1.jpg

[tyven]

fuck lol

[BerenTebogo]

I don't really have an opinion either way in this discussion but these needed posting..

[notorious bum]

[Ksandra]

While this can be an interesting discussion as a general concept, everything I am reading about Rachel makes her sound like a huge jackass. It does make me wonder how many people do this in a more low key manner.