Final Fantasy 7 Remake (PC/PS4) - March 3rd, 2020

[Elcura]

Poser for sure. I don’t know about likeable loser. Dude was the primordial emo edge lord during an era when it was the cool thing to put in games.

You're confusing Cloud for Squall. The edgiest Cloud gets is interacting with Sephiroth, and most of that is being a brain dead puppet. The edgiest thing Cloud did was at Barret's behest, so maybe Barret is the emo edge lord. The more I think about it, the more that is probably true.

Has been a while since I played though.

[Xno Kappa]

You're confusing Cloud for Squall. The edgiest Cloud gets is interacting with Sephiroth, and most of that is being a brain dead puppet. The edgiest thing Cloud did was at Barret's behest, so maybe Barret is the emo edge lord. The more I think about it, the more that is probably true.

Has been a while since I played though.

I just remember him, and Squall, being dicks just for the sake of being dicks. With the poser holier than thou smug attitude towards everyone.

Not once did Cloud ever strike me as the “aww shucks” type of dude lol.

[Zealot]

After Cloud gets his memories back he's a cooler dude. Squall is facing down the sorceress at the end of time with all of his friends after their grand adventure together and is still like "tch, whatever, I guess."

[Niiro]

I think it's been way too long since a lot of you have played 7 or 8.

[Ratatapa]

After Cloud gets his memories back he's a cooler dude. Squall is facing down the sorceress at the end of time with all of his friends after their grand adventure together and is still like "tch, whatever, I guess."

Squall is dead, so he can do what he wants

[Eurell]

Squall is dead, so he can do what he wants

That theory was meh. Rinoa is Ultimecia theory is so much better.

[Ratatapa]

That theory was meh. Rinoa is Ultimecia theory is so much better.

whynotboth.jpg

[Zealot]

Rinoa falls in love with Squall, who gets killed by Edea, setting off a chain of events wherein Rinoa becomes Ultimecia to try and change time. Squall lives in a time loop of her creation starting at the moment of his death where they have a grand adventure, fall in love, and live happily ever after.

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[Elcura]

I think it's been way too long since a lot of you have played 7 or 8.

Wanna elaborate?

[Niiro]

Describing Cloud and Squall as "edgelords" isn't wholly inaccurate but it's really just a surface level description of their presumed character archetypes.

Their personas and actions in their respective games don't reflect any kind of forced behavior that isn't fitting to the character in the setting.

Neither character ever felt artificially cruel, uncaring, or nihilistic for the sake of conforming to an archetype.

I've said it before bit Squall in FF8 isn't so much an edgy character as he is a fairly normal, boring person in a JRPG when it comes to the majority of his actions and dialogue.

[Shenrien]

Something we havn't seen?

A completed title with zero cut content left of the cutting room floor.

[Xno Kappa]

That theory was meh. Rinoa is Ultimecia theory is so much better.

I replayed FF8 a couple years ago with this theory in mind, and it adds so much depth to the story it’s ridiculous to think it wasn’t intentional. I don’t care what some executive who had zero input into the writing thinks.

[IceSylph]

Squall doesn't have many emo moments in FFVIII. The handful of times he does is when Rinoa goes comatose, and in Galbadia when they're talking about Seifer's supposed death. The other times, he comes off as cold or indifferent. He's just trying to do his job without any issues, but along the way people fuck shit up and make it harder.

You have Rinoa who needs a baby sitter. You have Zell who gets on his nerves, but otherwise is a good and likable guy. Sulphide fucks up, especially at missle base. Irvine royally fucks up in Deling, but it's understandable. His teacher is trying to fuck him. He's with a group of people that aren't the most competent, and he just wants to get shit done.

Throughout the game he slowly breaks through his shell, with the help of Rinoa. He has development. He's also a massive introvert, who generally prefer being alone.

As for Cloud, he wasn't really "emo" until post game. Up until Aerith's death, he was generally a comical wise ass, who went with the flow. Not bad for a guy whose been Mako poisoned for like 5 years and just came to "his" senses.

EDIT: Also, regarding the whole entire Orphanage scene where people forget their memories, it's hinted at, and also flat out stated multiple times, that using GF does deteriorate your memory severely. It's completely understandable why everyone in Garden, barring Irvine, forgot they grew up in the same Orphanage until whatever age. They've been using them since being at Garden.

[silverdragontyr]

To be fair these relatively young people haven't exactly had the best and most easy lives so it's a little understandable a little nihilism. I mean Cloud, 21 at present of game wanted to be a soldier to be strong and protect the world and the people who cared about, and after failing the soldier program watched his hometown get destroyed by his idol, then killed that idol and was experimented on and mindfucked then watched his best friend die.

Squall on the other hand, a 17 year old teenager(think about that for a moment)was a child soldier trained specifically for war from the age of 10 or so for one purpose, Obey and get the mission done. Then as said above put in charge of a bunch of fuck ups who didn't seem to care about the mission. To top it all off they were all told to use a powerful weapon that after long exposure wiped your memory so yeah he may be a little pissed at life.

[Ayn]

*K.O.'d Zack, dude.

But yeah, that was one hell of an adrenaline rush.

I mean after you see what really happened, you gotta admit the whole rest of the premise is Sephiroth being a sore loser from being beaten by a scrub.

[Ratatapa]

To be fair these relatively young people haven't exactly had the best and most easy lives so it's a little understandable a little nihilism. I mean Cloud, 21 at present of game wanted to be a soldier to be strong and protect the world and the people who cared about, and after failing the soldier program watched his hometown get destroyed by his idol, then killed that idol and was experimented on and mindfucked then watched his best friend die.

Squall on the other hand, a 17 year old teenager(think about that for a moment)was a child soldier trained specifically for war from the age of 10 or so for one purpose, Obey and get the mission done. Then as said above put in charge of a bunch of fuck ups who didn't seem to care about the mission. To top it all off they were all told to use a powerful weapon that after long exposure wiped your memory so yeah he may be a little pissed at life.

But Zidane is a Clone monkey from another planet yet he<s still happy!

[Xno Kappa]

I disagree in regards to Cloud. It’s easy to say certain things in the context of 2018 where there’s been additional lore and media added to the character since then.

In 1997 Cloud was very much the stereotypical brooding anti-hero archetype. It’s not a negative criticism per se’. We just need to remember this was an era where it was the popular norm. Sting was the biggest wrestler on the planet without having to say a single word for an entire year, Spawn was one of the top merchandise sellers, Evangelion was one of the most popular animes ever released, everyone was begging for a darker and more adult-oriented Zelda game in anticipation for OoT, and every other video game main character was an orphan with amnesia lol.

[fantasticdan]

You're confusing Cloud for Squall. The edgiest Cloud gets is interacting with Sephiroth, and most of that is being a brain dead puppet. The edgiest thing Cloud did was at Barret's behest, so maybe Barret is the emo edge lord. The more I think about it, the more that is probably true.

Has been a while since I played though.

I'd say cloud was an edgelord for the first chunk of the game. He constantly goes out of his way to explain that he isn't doing anything to help anyone, doesn't care what anyone thinks, only does shit for money, etc.

I replayed FF8 a couple years ago with this theory in mind, and it adds so much depth to the story it’s ridiculous to think it wasn’t intentional. I don’t care what some executive who had zero input into the writing thinks.

I thought it was intended when I was a kid. TBH the story of that game kind of shit otherwise; the main villain has zero character development and no motive, many introduced concepts and plot-points have little to no pay off (IE:time loops/compression, GF induced memory loss, the squall/rinoa/seifer love triangle, the dumb fuss over squalls ring, etc.). Ultimecia being rinoa makes everything come full circle and ties up so many loose ends.

[Zetanio]

Cloud was the ultimate edge lord.

"I don't care about your stupid eco-terrorist shit. Gimme my f$%^$%^ money."

I didn't give Aerith 1gil. H8h8h8h8h8

[Elcura]

Describing Cloud and Squall as "edgelords" isn't wholly inaccurate but it's really just a surface level description of their presumed character archetypes.

Their personas and actions in their respective games don't reflect any kind of forced behavior that isn't fitting to the character in the setting.

Neither character ever felt artificially cruel, uncaring, or nihilistic for the sake of conforming to an archetype.

I've said it before bit Squall in FF8 isn't so much an edgy character as he is a fairly normal, boring person in a JRPG when it comes to the majority of his actions and dialogue.

That's what I thought as well and I disliked Squall in 8 because he was amazingly boring and when he was trying to be outgoing he was just dull (but that's most of the 8 cast).

I disagree in regards to Cloud. It’s easy to say certain things in the context of 2018 where there’s been additional lore and media added to the character since then.

In 1997 Cloud was very much the stereotypical brooding anti-hero archetype. It’s not a negative criticism per se’. We just need to remember this was an era where it was the popular norm. Sting was the biggest wrestler on the planet without having to say a single word for an entire year, Spawn was one of the top merchandise sellers, Evangelion was one of the most popular animes ever released, everyone was begging for a darker and more adult-oriented Zelda game in anticipation for OoT, and every other video game main character was an orphan with amnesia lol.

I'd say you got that backwards. If anything the additional lore/media has solidified him as a cool, calm character, but the FF7 Cloud I remember was more lighthearted and smartassy, due to his misplaced confidence.

I'd say cloud was an edgelord for the first chunk of the game. He constantly goes out of his way to explain that he isn't doing anything to help anyone, doesn't care what anyone thinks, only does shit for money, etc.

I'd say it was mostly accurate up until the 2nd reactor, then he lightens up a fuckload in a short amount of time, and generally stays that way until the next milestone.

But given he was working for a known terrorist organisation he can be forgiven for keeping his distance.