Let's talk Warrior (3.0 Heavensward Discussion) - Future Fell Cleave e-peen thread

[Lucavi]

That's right haters, stay the fuck away from my Cleave. All mine... <3 Working as goddamn intended.

[Kihra]

FFLogs
Hasn't been much visible progress in a while though.

Just to provide an update on this, I have been waiting for Ravahn (the author of the ACT plug-in) to add some new features so that I can display DoT and HoT information in a manner that is consistent with ACT. Once that is in place, I will get DoT/HoT support added, and absorbs support added, and then the site should be providing accurate information.

I have recently added support for the new jobs as well as for the new Heavensward dungeons, primals and raids. Floor 2 detection is still a mess, but I'm working on it.

[LinktheDeme]

Anyone have any new parses if so what ilevel are you? (I know this can start to vary dramatically as people who went for certain pieces are going to have a clear advantage) Trying to see where I'm at relative to the curve. . .

[Jahaudant]

Levelling WAR right now and it's hilariously fun. Since getting Fell Cleave I've been top DPS on all bosses, sometimes by a considerable margin. 450 DPS to the next BLMs 300 DPS on the Sohm Al boss? Wat.

Then again this is pre-60 DF DPS we are talking about.

Spoiler: show

Then again even post-60 DF DPS can barely play through the drool pooling on their keyboard.

[shepardG]

I'm hearing all this talk about Warriors doing incredibly high DPS, and I was planning on making warrior my main to progress through all this new (i.e. old for ya'll) content (Coil6-12, heavensward).

I assume their going to nerf it with all this talk, or are folks just sort of exagerating. (I just finished ninja to 50 last night so i'll be finding out soon enough i recon)

[Jahaudant]

I was concerned WAR would get nerfed a little in the next balance patch (whenever the hell that is) but then Yoshi said this in the last Live Letter:

The reason warriors DPS is high is because they have a debuff where they can decrease a target’s slashing resistance.

As an off tank, dark knights can also utilize the benefits from this debuff’s effect and that will also allow them to output similar amounts of damage. Paladins are specialized in defense so their damage output is a little bit lower.

As for how warriors can output more DPS while main tanking, paladins have strong physical damage reduction and powerful actions like Hallowed Ground, dark knights have a strong magical damage reduction in Dark Mind, so these are the differences from the job designs.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I'm hearing all this talk about Warriors doing incredibly high DPS, and I was planning on making warrior my main to progress through all this new (i.e. old for ya'll) content (Coil6-12, heavensward).

I assume their going to nerf it with all this talk, or are folks just sort of exagerating. (I just finished ninja to 50 last night so i'll be finding out soon enough i recon)

WAR dps is not "incredibly high" by any means. My parser causes my client to crash sometimes so I've not gotten consistent readings in Alexander but I know as OT on the bosses I can peak at 1250 with my opener rotation and usually settle around 650-700 over the rest of the battles. For that big pack pull in A3 with the scorpion I pull the whole floor and rock around 2100 dps when the fight ends.

Real DPS classes are pulling less spike damage but around 1200-1300 dps in A4 from last night's parse. We have a MNK and DRG, the former who is ahead by a small margin.

[Ramset]

Unfortunately I keep forgetting to save my parses...but warrior is pretty godlike when played well.

Unfortunately, bard is really undertuned still. I'm basically always near or ahead of my static bard at all times. The only times he edges me out is when there's targets to multi-dot and very little movement. I also main tank every Alex floor. However, I'm basically in Deliverance full time with full STR gear.

YoshiP's statement about DRK DPS is very true. I've played with a couple good DRKs that can keep up with my WAR while they're OTing. If WAR gets nerfed DRK will be OT DPS king (if they can keep TP)

[Niiro]

DRK has caused the number of WARs to go from low to lower.

Makes me sad as a NIN ._. but at least when I'm top DPS while doing my own slashing debuff I can be all like "and this isn't even my FINAL form!"

(WAR was my first job to 60 but NIN has always been my main)

[LinktheDeme]

I haven’t been saving parses as well as the comparison is going to be skewed a bit for people that went full right side str (190 that is not accessory wise) and neglected vit or other builds (meaning sacrificing left side str and vit pieces for right side pure str) etc so the comparison is lost a bit but what I’ve been averaging is

Rav Ex (I haven’t done this in a while but I was 800+)
A1: 900-1000+

A2: ?


A3: 800+ I lose a lot of DPS on the waterspout phase taking tethers off and standing away from people qq although I haven't ever went full try hard, pretty confident I could reach 900+

A4: ? I haven’t actually recorded a parse from here I feel like the numbers are way too skewed personally. (Edit: 850+)

I feel like I have a lot of room for improvement and I still have optimizing to do with my IR, Zerk, and Infuriate timing alignments. I need to math out the breakeven point for a full sustained rotation out and a phase burst adjusted rotation, similar to Rav ex. I think it’s always ideal to save IR to align up with infuriate though so you have a guaranteed two fell cleaves its going to boost and maybe a fracture depending on the timing.

My zerk timing I’ve been messing around with a bit too, but all of these buffs change a fair bit depending on how much prep time you have.
Do most WARs not even eyeball their numbers? Hard to judge where I am relative to other people tbh to see how much I need to actually improve. I know I was one of the first few wars that could sustain 1k+ dps after 5 mins on a dummy, but that's just a dummy and I'm sure most can do that now.

[Taint]

One of the best things about WAR is their Emnity while DPSing. I actually find WAR the easiest tank job to play now. Much easier then PLD and DRK is more cumbersome then hard.

WARs DPS combo and Emnity combo are the same, where as PLDs DPS tanks when spamming Halone instead of Royal. PLD is SwO has a hard time holding hate off top tier DPS, WAR in Deliverance its NP.

WAR is the ultimate tank right, MT and OT. Even if Hallowed is needed you should put the PLD in the OT role and just tank swap for Hallowed.

[Jahaudant]

Been thinking about and reading a lot more in to WAR since I'm pretty serious about switching to it as OT in Savage (currently DRK, from PLD in 2.x) and buff timings is one place I'm not entirely sure about.

In an optimal OT / DPS rotation should I be using IR when it comes back up, or wait the extra 30 sec to have IR for another round of triple FCs? Or... is it better to IR every other Berserk instead.

I am assuming it's best to keep Infuriate for when Berserk is up?

Why aren't there any simulators for this shit!?

[Neon_Sea]

Had a MT DRK get 890 dps on A3 so I imagine if you get lucky on add phase and skip second hand phase you could get 900-1k+ on War

[Churchill]

Deme and I had a discussion about this, but it appears that the best way to manage infuriate (currently) is to use it at the end of your Berserk instead of right away like you might be inclined to do. Internal (currently) is best saved for this period as well.

Basically get 4 stacks -> Berserk -> FC -> CD's/5Stacks -> FC -> Infuriate -> FC -> whatever

The bulk (again, near 50% and will increase in the future) of your damage comes from Berserk. What this allows you to do is get Infuriate and Berserk on nearly the same timer. You will wait a bit for them to line up, and you might think "I'm losing DPS, all my DPS comes from Berserk" but at the same time you have to consider that 3 FC's in one Berserk is the main contribution to why you do most of your damage in Berserk.

They don't line up terrible bad though, it's not much of a wait. In fact, the biggest issue with not using Fracture (something I tested) was that it causes weird Wrath alignments to where you'd basically get 5 stacks, and 2 GCD's later your Berserk/Inf are ready but obviously you used FC so they have to wait even longer to be used.

NOPE

Edit: At say , 1.75% Crit Damage, your base Crit Rate would be 35.08% (Say, 2 Raid Patches from now since this requires a Crit Hit Stat of 1647)

Internal Release on CD + holding Wrath outside of Berserk would give you a 50.08% Crit Rate for non-Berserk DPS periods.

---
a rotation of:

HS - M - SE -- F -- HS - SS - BB - HS - M - SE - HS -SS - BB -- F -- HS - M - SE - HS - SS - BB | repeating

or

HS - M - SE -- F -- HS - SS - BB - HS - M --- FC --- SE - HS -SS - BB -- F -- HS - M - SE --- FC --- HS - SS - BB | repeating

((Potency*0.508*1.75)+Potency*0.492)) vs. (((Potency*0.3968*1.75)+(Potency*0.6032)) - 2*AverageGCD)

4320 * 0.508 * 1.75 = 3840.48
4320 * 0.492 = 2125.44
Total = 5965.92
AverageGCD = 298.296

5320 * 0.3968 * 1.75 = 3694.208
5320 * 0.6032 = 3209.024
Total = 6903.232
- (2*298.296)
= 6306.64

So based on that FC may just be strong enough to never be surpassed. If they nerf it for any reason, buff Fracture, buff SE rotation, that might change. I also used 4.6 for the average crit rate which I derived mathematically from the rotations, but also resembles what you'll see on your parses so I'm okay with that.

I also didn't factor Maim or Storms Eye because I think we can assume 100% uptime so the results wouldn't be different from one example to the other.

[LinktheDeme]

Had a MT DRK get 890 dps on A3 so I imagine if you get lucky on add phase and skip second hand phase you could get 900-1k+ on War

Actually I believe that would work against the DRK and the WAR. Being able to double dot (especially since this is a 500 potency attack (with darkside 575), anything a DRK can get full multi-dot ticks in they're going to have an advantage), overpower/abyssal and get decimates here would increase DPS, depending on how long the second set of hands are out. If they instantly just remerge then you'd probably lose DPS though due to the unnecessary downtime. My group tends to skip the second set of hands completely.




Also, was this in a high DPS scenario or a low to medium dps scenario? I see a low DPS scenario with a good WAR 1k should be achievable np. But in a high one there is more downtime being factored in relative to the overall fight. Not to mention with good dps/ranged dps it’s harder to even get any dps during the water phase. Although if only the other tank took the tethers it’d make it slightly easier. Only reason I’ve come to say this is because I notice after the water phase is when my dps starts to increase and level out where it should be.

[Neon_Sea]

This was a high push phase dps. The Drk actually died at the end but the boss fell soon after. The Hand phase happened then almost immediately disappeared and went into final phase because of my(smn) and sch dots. So there was actually a decent amount of down time and only one double hand. I think the big kicker was that I was basically contributing no dps on add phase because I was just casting miasma on adds and painflaring ones that got close to edge. This probably made it easier for all melee to maintain their dps.

[Wulfgang]

WAR dps is not "incredibly high" by any means. My parser causes my client to crash sometimes so I've not gotten consistent readings in Alexander but I know as OT on the bosses I can peak at 1250 with my opener rotation and usually settle around 650-700 over the rest of the battles. For that big pack pull in A3 with the scorpion I pull the whole floor and rock around 2100 dps when the fight ends.

Real DPS classes are pulling less spike damage but around 1200-1300 dps in A4 from last night's parse. We have a MNK and DRG, the former who is ahead by a small margin.

I've parsed all of the ~20+ Alex runs you and I have done together and you destroy my PLD. I'm at like 400-450 and you're typically low/mid-700s over the whole fight. This is mostly A3/A4 since we've done a ton of them over the past two days.

[Aiurily]

snip

i can see it being worth it in the long run, but that double fell cleave under xpot is pretty nice with infuriate after berserk>fell cleave

[Takiwaki]

I know the dps epeen is strong but those 11k equilibrium crits are amazing also

[Abbul Stonecleaver]

Wow killing Rav Ex during Final liberation cast is a huge boost to dps. Went from 725 high to 799. With a little better RNG I could have broke 800. No food, pots, or trick attack.