Let's talk Warrior (3.0 Heavensward Discussion) - Future Fell Cleave e-peen thread

[Ramset]

Oh shit man lol. Looks like you also OT the fight judging by your damage taken. I open as MT...thinking I can switch some things up and pump out a little more DPS. My goal was to finish at 800 DPS this week. Gonna have to see how next week goes.

[TheBlazed]

Oh shit man lol. Looks like you also OT the fight judging by your damage taken. I open as MT...thinking I can switch some things up and pump out a little more DPS. My goal was to finish at 800 DPS this week. Gonna have to see how next week goes.

yea, my specific group keeps me as ot.... during the first jump im at 998 DPS which is literally the best dmg they have seen from any warrior... even gave me enough confidence to make a dps guide for warrior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LAoAH-EB24

[Ramset]

Full i180/190 slaying accessories?

I think your group just doesn't play with many good warriors though lol. However, they are pretty few and far between. Deliverance just sorta makes the bad ones look less shitty now.

[TheBlazed]

yea warriors on gilg at least are still pretty bad... you can usually tell the bad ones still even with deliverance


this specific run i use x3 crafted accessories cuz my healers are random as shit about healing
i have full slaying i190 and 180/190 rings.

[Jahaudant]

Hmm, so basically: you give up doing a 3rd FC under Berserk to get Berserk up 3 GCD's faster. You pop IR and Infuriate on cooldown. You don't use Fracture except on last GCD available under Berserk and Pot.

Take a look at the last few pages where Fracture was mathed out as a dps gain. Besides that, suggesting to use it only as the last GCD under zerk is poor optimisation. Instead, you should be using it at 5 stacks of Deliverence while both zerk and IR are still up.

Spoiler: show

It was pretty funny when you quickly jumped away from the dummy at 1001 dps and then proceeded to drag the parse overlay everywhere as if to shout "look 1000 dps war!"

[Taim Meich]

What's the OT/pure DPS opening you use, guys?

I just hit 60 and i've been experimenting with the 3xFC in berserk from the beginning, but that means I'm delaying the use of Berserk a bit too much for my own taste and I don't know if it's worth it. What I do now is: Heavy Swing -> Maim (Brutal Swing) -> Storm's Eye -> Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block (Internal Release) -> Heavy Swing (Berserk) -> Fell Cleave (Infuriate) -> Fell Cleave -> Maim -> Storm's Eye (Raw Intuition) -> Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block -> Fell Cleave (Pacification, usually, if not, sneak a Fracture in there). Then after this the usual Eye -> Block sequence maintaining Fracture if possible.

My questions are: is it worth it to hold onto Infuriate to use it in another FCx3 sequence? I'm pretty sure it's not, that it's better used as soon as it's available and you have 0 charges for another FC, but I'd betterr ask. Also, is there a way to align Berserk and Infuriate charges so you can FCx3 (or x2) reliably during every Berserk?

So far my only parse (around 5 minutes) on a dummy, with i180 left side and crafted i110 right side has yielded me a disappointing 750 DPS. I don't know if it's because of the accesories not giving enough STR, because of the parse length, because my rotation sucks, or maybe all of the above, but I feel it's too low.


Also:

yea, my specific group keeps me as ot.... during the first jump im at 998 DPS which is literally the best dmg they have seen from any warrior... even gave me enough confidence to make a dps guide for warrior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LAoAH-EB24

Why the macroed Heavy Swing, Skull Sunder and Maim? Even if spamming the buttons fast, as you do, you're denying yourself a few tens of SS worth of attack speed by not queuing those.

[Jahaudant]

On Dummy with fully melded right side I am generally around 950 dps at the 3 min mark.

If you use the standard triple FC opener, include Fracture, and then reapply Fracture as it falls off until Berserk comes off CD, it will perfectly align Berserk with 4 stacks of Deliverance after Heavy Swing allowing you to do another triple FC.

I personally hold Brutal Swing until after Storm's Eye (I also dont hit it until about 1.25 sec in to the GCD to ensure the SE debuff is actually up). Maybe this is poor form?

Don't IR that early. You can use IR and Berserk in the same GCD with no downtime if you must use it there. Personally, I use IR later in the berserk cycle because 1) Doing so early costs you at least 1 GCD buffed with both Zerk+IR and 2) Using it later aligns it more comfortably with Berserk.

My full rotation is this:

HS > M > SE (Brutal) > HS > SS > BB > HS (Zerk) > FC > M > (IR) > SE (RI) > HS (pot) > SS > BB (Brutal (I think)) > F > FC > Infuriate > FC > Pacified.

Be certain to use Berserk nearer the end of your GCD rather than at the beginning. Ideally you want the animation lock from Berserk to end the exact frame as your GCD completes but it's better to use it a few ms late and get a tiny clip than to use it a few ms early and miss a GCD at the end. The same rule applies for IR after Maim. Use it late in the GCD and it's 15 second duration should line up perfectly with Berserk's remaining 15 seconds.

I believe holding IR and Infuriate for Berserk is a gain but I haven't personally mathed it out, or actually seen anyone else math it out.

[Taim Meich]

On Dummy with fully melded right side I am generally around 950 dps at the 3 min mark.

If you use the standard triple FC opener, include Fracture, and then reapply Fracture as it falls off until Berserk comes off CD, it will perfectly align Berserk with 4 stacks of Deliverance after Heavy Swing allowing you to do another triple FC.

So, that's a no on using Infuriate for an extra FC in between, right? That's mean around 30 seconds of having Infuriate ready, but I guess it's worth it in order to have an extra boosted FC in Berserk. Also, what SS are you guys using? With the SS changes, I find myself more often than not just a bit short of time to do that last Fracture (and that's why I do it last in Berserk, in order to make sure the third FC goes off).

[Jahaudant]

Sorry. See my edited post above. I wanted to give you more info after I posted.

I'm at 523 SS and can pretty comfortably get 9 GCD's in Berserk. It can be pretty ping dependent I hear.

If it's tight for you I imagine the Eso Axe next week will easily remedy that problem.

Be certain to use Berserk nearer the end of your GCD rather than at the beginning. Ideally you want the animation lock from Berserk to end the exact frame as your GCD completes but it's better to use it a few ms late and get a tiny clip than to use it a few ms early and miss a GCD at the end. The same rule applies for IR after Maim. Use it late in the GCD and it's 15 second duration should line up perfectly with Berserk's remaining 15 seconds.

Raw Intuition can really be used anywhere after the first FC. It's placement in my rotation isn't where it is for any particular reason.

Edit: I was going to ask how Blazed was using Mercy Stroke (lol?) without hitting it... it didn't occur to me that using macros for basic combo skills was something anyone would actually do....

[Taim Meich]

Hm, I main SMN so Eso Axe is out of the question, bu other than that:

- Berserk: Yeah, I have the habit of using it late in the GCD so no time is wasted, will try to use it later even if I clip a bit. As you say, it's more important to have the buffed FC done than a small delay.
- FCx2 -> FC versus FC -> FCx2. You use the latter, I use the former in order to have the first 2 buffed by IR, and also because of my aforementioned fear of pacification kicking too early. If I find I can fit reliably 9 attacks on berserk I'll definitely change to your scheme, since it buffs Fracture with a 20% crit chance. That's pretty substantial.
- Holding on Infuriate: I'll definitely try it out.

Thanks for the advice!

[Jahaudant]

To be fair, in most raid openers I end up doing HS (IR + Berserk) > FC > Infuriate > FC anyway just so at least 2 FCs are buffed by Battle Littany. I usually check for Littany real quick before I zerk and make the decision then. Outside of this I think the first rotation I posted is better.

[Ramset]

Almost every good warrior does the same overall rotation with some slight variance. It's hard not to as there's not many different ways to do it. The only differences are Fracture, and when you use your oGCDs.

It's important to note that the timing of your oGCD moves can always change depending on the encounter, and you also have to consider buffs/rebuffs (I.e. Trick Attack and Battle Litany).

We can discuss rotations all day ( it's already been beaten into the ground on reddit on a daily basis [Just go search WAR DPS and you should find at least two threads a day for the last month]), and we've also discussed it here.

The thing that really separates a good warrior from the rest is raid awareness (loose term). That is to say, knowing all the mechanics of the fight, and having a Hive Mind like relationship with your co-tank AND your healers. Those things will allow you to properly stance dance, know when you Fracture and when not to Fracture, know when to use cool downs or save them, etc. You can stand in front of a striking dummy all day, but if you can't do the same thing during a raid what use is it? This is often the problem I see with people asking for rotation help. You can memorize the rotation all you want, but what you really need to do is entirely understand all the tools that a warrior has and what they're good for. Then become extremely comfortable with your healers and co-tank (this is a play style that comes with many weeks/months playing together). THEN as you begin to learn new fights you can instantly begin to understand how to apply the rotation, because almost always your rotation will change based on the encounter. That's my advice.

[TheBlazed]

Hmm, so basically: you give up doing a 3rd FC under Berserk to get Berserk up 3 GCD's faster. You pop IR and Infuriate on cooldown. You don't use Fracture except on last GCD available under Berserk and Pot.

Take a look at the last few pages where Fracture was mathed out as a dps gain. Besides that, suggesting to use it only as the last GCD under zerk is poor optimisation. Instead, you should be using it at 5 stacks of Deliverence while both zerk and IR are still up.

Spoiler: show

It was pretty funny when you quickly jumped away from the dummy at 1001 dps and then proceeded to drag the parse overlay everywhere as if to shout "look 1000 dps war!"

I read through this entire thread pretty much. I don't know man i tried using it perfectly in AS1 with the said optimization with Zerk/IR + 5 Stacks/Storms/Maim.

I still ended up coming out on top with my own rotation.... like i said in the vid it may not be the best out/best optimized but it does push numbers.

if you don't mind link a parse from your AS1 so we can compare if you use it pretty religiously. I don't mind being wrong and discredited if results are shown.

That's some real detailed watching if you got all that and think it meant anything. More of a highlight as an alternate competing rotation besides having groups wait 50 seconds for your dream opener.

I appreciate the feedback man <3

[TheBlazed]

What's the OT/pure DPS opening you use, guys?

I just hit 60 and i've been experimenting with the 3xFC in berserk from the beginning, but that means I'm delaying the use of Berserk a bit too much for my own taste and I don't know if it's worth it. What I do now is: Heavy Swing -> Maim (Brutal Swing) -> Storm's Eye -> Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block (Internal Release) -> Heavy Swing (Berserk) -> Fell Cleave (Infuriate) -> Fell Cleave -> Maim -> Storm's Eye (Raw Intuition) -> Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block -> Fell Cleave (Pacification, usually, if not, sneak a Fracture in there). Then after this the usual Eye -> Block sequence maintaining Fracture if possible.

My questions are: is it worth it to hold onto Infuriate to use it in another FCx3 sequence? I'm pretty sure it's not, that it's better used as soon as it's available and you have 0 charges for another FC, but I'd betterr ask. Also, is there a way to align Berserk and Infuriate charges so you can FCx3 (or x2) reliably during every Berserk?

So far my only parse (around 5 minutes) on a dummy, with i180 left side and crafted i110 right side has yielded me a disappointing 750 DPS. I don't know if it's because of the accesories not giving enough STR, because of the parse length, because my rotation sucks, or maybe all of the above, but I feel it's too low.


Also:


Why the macroed Heavy Swing, Skull Sunder and Maim? Even if spamming the buttons fast, as you do, you're denying yourself a few tens of SS worth of attack speed by not queuing those.

The only thing macro'd there is Mercy Stroke... it usually doesn't present a problem for me as it always procs while GCD is refreshing
As you saw on vid... my ps4 buttons are all pretty used... do you think it makes that much of a difference to have use it seperately?
i am genuinely interested to know... ive never noticed MS procing and preventing me from Heavy swinging or using any of my combos before it
I do play with 36 ping... maybe that has has some factor?

[Taim Meich]

The only thing macro'd there is Mercy Stroke... it usually doesn't present a problem for me as it always procs while GCD is refreshing
As you saw on vid... my ps4 buttons are all pretty used... do you think it makes that much of a difference to have use it seperately?
i am genuinely interested to know... ive never noticed MS procing and preventing me from Heavy swinging or using any of my combos before it
I do play with 36 ping... maybe that has has some factor?

The point is, the way the game works, if you push the button for a skill in the half second or so before the GCD ends, the skill will queue and will be executed immediately after the GCD ends. That means skills can be chained perfectly, without having a single gap between them. However, if you use a macro instead of a skill, the game WON'T queue it, which means that if you push the button even 1 millisecond before the GCD is up, the skill won't activate, you have tu push the button after the GCD ends for the skill to activate. So, even with very low ping and mashing the skills a lot, you'll lose some precious milliseconds between attack and attack. It normally doesn't matter much, but when you try to fit 9 skills within a Berserk, it is crucial, as every tiny bit of time lost counts. In your video you only use 8 attacks per Berserk cycle, partly because of what I said, and partly because you use Berserk + Internal Release in the GCD, wasting Berserk time.

[TheBlazed]

The point is, the way the game works, if you push the button for a skill in the half second or so before the GCD ends, the skill will queue and will be executed immediately after the GCD ends. That means skills can be chained perfectly, without having a single gap between them. However, if you use a macro instead of a skill, the game WON'T queue it, which means that if you push the button even 1 millisecond before the GCD is up, the skill won't activate, you have tu push the button after the GCD ends for the skill to activate. So, even with very low ping and mashing the skills a lot, you'll lose some precious milliseconds between attack and attack. It normally doesn't matter much, but when you try to fit 9 skills within a Berserk, it is crucial, as every tiny bit of time lost counts. In your video you only use 8 attacks per Berserk cycle, partly because of what I said, and partly because you use Berserk + Internal Release in the GCD, wasting Berserk time.

thats great information and i appreciate you taking the time to do it... changing it now

[Abbul Stonecleaver]

Some things holding my dps down in SA1 it seems: I haven't been using Fracture, though I suppose I should. I open as MT and drag boss south, meaning I open with Unchained and 2 Tomahawks as I'm running. I do switch into Deliverance right after Unchained and I get in one FC in my opener.

I only use Bb combo twice over the fight, other than that I rotate Eye and Path. Even with full Path uptime I have to use Defiance most of the time. However I do a triple FC after .5 spawns, and do a Deliverance Berserk every post jump. But then I need Defiance again. Unfortunately the timing isn't working where I can use Unchained and get IB available in time for HCP.

I also am using 1 Fending, 2 crafted, 2 slaying.

Do you guys use Unchained in SA1? I guess the top dps Warriors are only needing Defiance for around HCP.

[Abbul Stonecleaver]

My SA1 clear.

https://youtu.be/-IzZn_aRjHw

[Ramset]

Holy FUCK that resolution.

Secondly, I use Fracture. I open as MT with Berserk + Unchained using my 2.0 rotation.

You could slightly improve raid DPS by not pulling the boss south like that and not tank swapping. You could stay as MT the whole first phase and extend your survivability with ToB + Conv which you didn't use at all until 2 and a half minutes in the fight. To make matters worse you were in Defiance. ToB + Convalescence are like a mini spurt of Defiance when paired together. Always couple them or stagger then when in Deliverance to extend your time out of Defiance. I also saw several times when you dipped to sub 1500 HP with full TP and didn't use Equilibrium even though you were in Defiance. You could have sub-par healers, but you could definitely get better at using your cooldowns. They're there for a reason. Also remember that Raw Intuition isn't there just to advance you to your next Fell Cleave. It's a very powerful cooldown when used properly defensively.

After split, I'm in Deliverance until landslide after adds/Resin Bomb. Then I switch to Defiance for Berserk + Unchained, although I'm consider changing this strat next week.

Another general strat tip: Tanks and Melee should bait Resin Bomb UNDERNEATH the boss in the direct center of his target circle. This will eliminate some clutter on the battle field and allow you to maneuver more easily around the boss. I saw times when you had to move away from the boss and miss GCDs because of AoE, therefore lowering your DPS.

Good luck, hope all that was helpful (forgive the unorganized structure, just pointed things out as I thought of them).

[Abbul Stonecleaver]

Yea I brought up me starting with it where it is. Likely something we will change next week.

I guess I could use ToB/ Con elsewhere, but I have been using it during double Prey to ease the healers before tank buster as that seems to be most dangerous part of fight.

I have been using Equilibrium immediately after the tank buster. Although maybe it would be better used elsewhere. I just don't know where I'm gonna drop low when I'm not in Deliverance.

Using Raw Intuition part of Berserk seems like it would help cover the fact I'm tanking in Deliverance for a time. I would say RI is better if I get prey, but that's RNG.

Foresight is one I do neglect after the first couple times using it. I need to figure out a higher physical portion of the fight. Or I could just make sure to keep popping it as available.

Where do you use ToB/ Conva?