Let's talk Warrior (3.0 Heavensward Discussion) - Future Fell Cleave e-peen thread

[Kiarax]

Yes, but it takes a lot more skill speed then appears to be normal. I've seen 510-520 listed as the minimum to get the job done, but at 580 it's unreliable at best, and I find I need 600 to get it reliably. I would have thought that the action queue system would have eliminated the latency difference, but it doesn't seem to be the case, no matter how I time berserk (about 3/4 the way through the gcd). It's horrible seeing that last cleave get interrupted by pacifiy mid animation.

Otherwise it appears I do things a very similar way as you. At this point latency is the only thing I can think of.

Just finish your 9 hit with Fracture if you're not consistently hitting the 9th hit.
Get 4 stacks and then Heavy Swing -> IR+Berserk -> Fell Cleave > Infuriate > Fell Cleave > Maim > Storm's Eye > (Vengeance or Raw Intuition for a stack) > Butcher's Block combo > Fell Cleave > Fracture for the 9th hit
You lose the 10% bonus crit on Fracture but if you're occasionally losing the Fell Cleave that's significantly worse. But yeah, needing notably more skill speed with an EU connection is normal, it sucks but luckily WAR doesn't have any TP issues whatsoever now so skill speed isn't necessarily a bad stat to need to stack more of, it's obviously not ideal still but your best bet is to just get as much as is necessary to consistently hit that 9th hit. You'll get a bigger DPS gain than worrying about stacking more crit or determination. Once you have enough skill speed to consistently get the 9th hit you can Fracture before the Butcher's Block combo (so it benefits from Internal Release and 3 Abandon stacks assuming you used Vengeance/Raw Intuition prior to it).

[Taint]

Yeah that's good advice, I sometimes just skip Fracture or try to do it last depending on movement dodging mechanics.

You also want to do Raw/Veng right after the 2nd FC if possible, very slight DPS boost but a good habit to have.

[Grey Jorildyn]

At the start of most fights you can use both RI and Vengeace. My rotation is identical to the above with fracture as the last hit on berserk. Always get it in with my current setup and even an extra heavy swing with rr'd arrow card.

On AS3, with ideal/near-perfect esuna you will get 4 fell cleaves off before it is untargettable in first phase. With arrow with you will carry over a heavy swing so you can maim to start and reapply eye/path before wash away, and return for double FC (infuriate) after the knockback.

[Kaope]

Currently using this set for A3S: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/ROOX

This is what I'm aiming for: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/ROP1

Since I'm still at A3S progression, eso i210 won't be anytime soon. Any better suggestions?

[Eludi]

So Fell cleave....

http://puu.sh/krrug/4ccd93d430.jpg
http://puu.sh/krnfX/635fbb0510.jpg

Trying at Ravana next.

[Abbul Stonecleaver]

How much Defiance do you guys use last phase of AS3 when MT and when grabbing tether?

Finally cleared tonight, and while in fflogs I'm in the 30s in AS1 and 2, I'm extremely horribly low in AS3. I know it's only a first clear and all, but I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

[AlastorTGN]

I feel bad for the WAR in my static, and our healers. For all the talk of WAR being OP he's being clipped significantly more than me and is said to be much harder to heal but it's this reality with the 'WAR is OP' thing that feels weird, I know for sure when I play as WAR I'm surprised at the actual limits I have. (I am a shit WAR though)

[Eludi]

How much Defiance do you guys use last phase of AS3 when MT and when grabbing tether?

Finally cleared tonight, and while in fflogs I'm in the 30s in AS1 and 2, I'm extremely horribly low in AS3. I know it's only a first clear and all, but I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I only switch to defiance on tether at last phase and even that can be done in deliverance if you save lot of cooldowns (personally I can't since i tank in deliverance while 1 healer is in hand) or your strat makes boss stay in middle for first tether allowing you to holmgang the damage.

Other than that with competent healers you can easily tank whole fight outside of drainage tethers in deliverance.

[KCem]

I feel bad for the WAR in my static, and our healers. For all the talk of WAR being OP he's being clipped significantly more than me and is said to be much harder to heal but it's this reality with the 'WAR is OP' thing that feels weird, I know for sure when I play as WAR I'm surprised at the actual limits I have. (I am a shit WAR though)

I personally don't feel that warrior is OP, it's more a case of savage currently being highly tuned to dps checks, which is where warrior excels in comparison to other tanks, and to be able to do that you're more tied to the quality of your healers. There also aren't all that many occasions to use defiance for prolonged periods, which would even the playing field greatly.

Having said that, like many others, I do feel that PLD could use a buff to enmity generation, at least while in sword oath. When I tool around on PLD in normal alex, I can pull in some decent dps, but I get too scared of losing hate without the help of a ninja in the party, and have to shield up for a bit.

[Taint]

WAR is the best tank right now for everything. OP or not its the best and that's all that matters.

[nyttyn]

Unless things dramatically change with 3.1, Warrior will remain objectively the best tank in the game.

The extra mitigation that the other two tanks provide is nowhere near enough to bridge the DPS gap, and neither of the other two tanks have anything in the way of subjective utility that could possibly make up for that DPS gap. All that matters in this game, at the moment, is DPS, from the easiest dungeon to Alexander 4 Savage, and since the classes are all so cookie-cutter, the only thing that matters is how much DPS you can bring to the table.

Astrologian was the closest thing they've ever gotten to the kind of utility that would make choosing between classes an actual question and they made cards so minor and RNG in effect that they do not matter much, if at all. At this point, bar a surprise rework, the only thing they could possibly do is buff the other two tanks up to WAR's DPS and maybe give WAR a little more defense to compensate, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

None of this is because Warrior is OP, it's because Square Enix's class designers and encounter designers don't communicate at all, and it painfully shows. That, and because they're so pants shittingly terrified of giving classes real utility that might make the game more complicated for the userbase that any class that doesn't focus on either DPS or providing DPS + DPS buffs is painfully hamstrung.

[Avarice]

So I asked a few weeks back, and I can't remember the discussion, but was it determined which i210 axe is better? The Esoterics axe has parry, which sucks, but it also has over 100 Crit, which is currently the strongest secondary stat; meanwhile the Gordian Axe has over 100 skill speed which would get you to the next Fell Cleave slightly faster (and Det so non-crit FCs are higher, but Crit. FCs might be lower, at least on paper).

[Churchill]

If SS isn't getting you another hit during Berserk (the only period of DPS that matters) then it's as valuable as Parry.

[Avarice]

Would have approximately 619 SkS (~2.40s GCD), with the Gordian Axe; 517 SkS without (~2.44s GCD). It would make latency more lenient, but on paper, I don't believe it would give me an extra attack (unless my math sucks, which is possible).

[KCem]

None of this is because Warrior is OP, it's because Square Enix's class designers and encounter designers don't communicate at all, and it painfully shows.

Agreed. We currently have encounters which are so dps focused that we can afford to have tanks in dps stances while the sch sits in clerics for the majority of the battle. If A1S for example, had more frequent tank busters, and harder hitting AA/founts to the extent where we had to remain in defiance/grit/shield oath for the majority of the fight, the playing field for tanks would be more even. SE fudged the idea that pld would be a party shield, and gave us no terraflare style attacks that could benefit from the idea or strategies that could benefit from cover.

If divine veil had its silly "cure to activate" quirk removed and was just a flat out 10% party wide mitigation (or more), we could use it in place of a tank LB on something like terraflare, and use a melee LB instead. PLD wouldn't need a dps buff to warrior level in order to passively help the group meet dps checks, hence making it a viable, and potentially advantageous job to bring along.

[Taint]

Agreed. We currently have encounters which are so dps focused that we can afford to have tanks in dps stances while the sch sits in clerics for the majority of the battle. If A1S for example, had more frequent tank busters, and harder hitting AA/founts to the extent where we had to remain in defiance/grit/shield oath for the majority of the fight, the playing field for tanks would be more even. SE fudged the idea that pld would be a party shield, and gave us no terraflare style attacks that could benefit from the idea or strategies that could benefit from cover.

If divine veil had its silly "cure to activate" quirk removed and was just a flat out 10% party wide mitigation (or more), we could use it in place of a tank LB on something like terraflare, and use a melee LB instead. PLD wouldn't need a dps buff to warrior level in order to passively help the group meet dps checks, hence making it a viable, and potentially advantageous job to bring along.

Lots of ifs there.

[Eludi]

Agreed. We currently have encounters which are so dps focused that we can afford to have tanks in dps stances while the sch sits in clerics for the majority of the battle. If A1S for example, had more frequent tank busters, and harder hitting AA/founts to the extent where we had to remain in defiance/grit/shield oath for the majority of the fight, the playing field for tanks would be more even. SE fudged the idea that pld would be a party shield, and gave us no terraflare style attacks that could benefit from the idea or strategies that could benefit from cover.

If divine veil had its silly "cure to activate" quirk removed and was just a flat out 10% party wide mitigation (or more), we could use it in place of a tank LB on something like terraflare, and use a melee LB instead. PLD wouldn't need a dps buff to warrior level in order to passively help the group meet dps checks, hence making it a viable, and potentially advantageous job to bring along.

This is one the reasons I liked T13 and T9 and fights like that where there was lot of really hard hitting tank busters in row, not like in a1 where you can just stack all cooldowns every time without worrying about having cooldown for next one. When as t13 you had to have some sort of cooldown for every flatten.

[Dotsudoku]

If SS isn't getting you another hit during Berserk (the only period of DPS that matters) then it's as valuable as Parry.

Sounds like ye old haste argument. If it's getting you an extra hit out of Berserk, it may have additional benefit, but otherwise it should be valued exactly as it's calculated to be valued. Assuming WAR weights are similar to DRG, if a weapon has any two offensive attributes it should win over a weapon with parry on it

[Kiarax]

Saying it's as valuable as parry is a little disingenuous, but what he's saying also has some merits. An extremely large portions of WARs damage now comes from your Berserk windows and skill speed is only benefiting your Fracture during those periods, nothing else. That said, there's still a decent amount of damage coming outside of Berserk and Skill Speed is perfectly fine there, especially since TP essentially doesn't exist on WAR anymore.

[KCem]

Lots of ifs there.

There's not much else that we as players can do than play pretend backseat dev and hope some ideas trickle through. Alex savage is tuned to be a giant dps check, with tanks justifying their place by committing to dps, and actual tanking becoming an afterthought which is where I believe the problem really is.

Sounds like ye old haste argument. If it's getting you an extra hit out of Berserk, it may have additional benefit, but otherwise it should be valued exactly as it's calculated to be valued. Assuming WAR weights are similar to DRG, if a weapon has any two offensive attributes it should win over a weapon with parry on it

Or if having that much SS bothers you, you can juggle your accessories/food around and retain a few crit that way.