Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Niiro]

That's not really true.

For all intents and purposes WAR's DPS combo is Eye, if anything WAR should be using Eye more than Block since if Eye drops for even 1 WS you've lost more damage than you gained by using Block.

As for DRK their enmity combo isn't their DPS combo at all, Power Slash combo is less potency than Delirium and DA-Souleater and more importantly doesn't include Siphon Strike. You generally use Power Slash as little as humanly possible.

[Taint]

That's not really true.

For all intents and purposes WAR's DPS combo is Eye, if anything WAR should be using Eye more than Block since if Eye drops for even 1 WS you've lost more damage than you gained by using Block.

As for DRK their enmity combo isn't their DPS combo at all, Power Slash combo is less potency than Delirium and DA-Souleater and more importantly doesn't include Siphon Strike. You generally use Power Slash as little as humanly possible.

Eye > BB on repeat with FCs in between holds hate off DPS just fine.

Halone > Halone > Goring was barely keeping hate off our WAR with our DRG creeping right behind him.

[Black]

in 2:46 fight A1 i only used 5 halone full Sword was able to hold hate well without ninja , Still DPS lose to use that shit with ninja would be way better

[Kaslo]

When you are talking about "spaming halone to keep hate" are you speaking of shield or sword oath?

[Wulfgang]

While the wording of "caster's HP" is ambiguous, DV is always based on the PLD's HP.

Let's call the shield effect "Divine Shield" instead.

When you get healed with Divine Veil up, DV wears off. Divine Shield is then applied to everyone else, and is worth 10% of the DV-user's max HP (17000 -> 1700). Divine Shield will not be removed if healed while it's up.

Wait what? Wow, airball by me. I guess that does make some sense; "caster" in this case is the one who "casted" Divine Veil, but it could certainly be worded better. In a related note, they should think about hiring an NA person to proofread their tooltips.

[Black]

When you are talking about "spaming halone to keep hate" are you speaking of shield or sword oath?

pretty sure he meant in sword oath

[Niiro]

The issue with hate for PLD in Sword Oath is kind of a mirror of their issue with damage in Shield.

WAR has Maim regardless of stance, DRK has Darkside regardless of stance.

PLD has nothing in Shield Oath and in Sword Oath the additional AA damage has no hate modifier, Maim and Darkside increase the damage (and thus the hate) of Block and Power but nothing boosts the hate from Halone.

[Dein]

PLD has nothing in Shield Oath and in Sword Oath the additional AA damage has no hate modifier, Maim and Darkside increase the damage (and thus the hate) of Block and Power but nothing boosts the hate from Halone.

Uh... are we forgetting that Fight or Flight exists? I know it can't be full-timed like Maim and Darkside but it's still a very potent CD for boosting your damage on PLD so that does boost the hate from Halone while it's up. That said I agree with a lot of what's being said about PLD right now and DRK just feels better to play than it right now for several reasons.

Sheltron's usefulness is kinda limited in Alexander and I don't see them suddenly adding in a new tank-buster to any of the fights that'll let us get a good use out of it. All the big tank busters in Alex are either magical and unblockable/parry-able or instant which means that the boss can auto-attack just as their big hit goes out and Sheltron eats the weak auto.

Clemency really does need a rework as it's currently too cumbersome to get much of any use out of it.

I feel like PLD can offer a good amount of utility to a group with DV and Stoneskin (and rarely clemency) but DRK just consistently does better damage and I don't feel like I take much less damage at all on PLD compared to DRK. At the very least I'd be happier on PLD if they finally gave it the ability to deal aoe damage outside of Circle of Scorn every 20 seconds.

[Lucavi]

I still want SE to consolidate a lot of these fluff-piece abilities. Plds talking about war having constant maim and drks having constant darkside would have their issue fixed if fight or flight's buff was rolled right into a main combo attack; lets use Savage Blade for the sake of discussion. If 30% damage is too high to be lumped into a mainstay combo, then drop the damage buff a bit at that point since it'll essentially be up full-time if you do your job properly.

1) I've already talked about wanting abilities merged together to reduce clutter. Merge Tempered Will and Sentinel with a high level trait (level 55-ish, lets say) since they both have the same buff duration and recast.
2) I've also spoken about improving current abilities more often with traits outside of simply extending recasts, something they do a bit of (drk's souleater going from 50% to 100% leeched), but not often enough. Flash could be buffed to actually deal magic damage similar to Holiest of Holy (not that strong, though, and with magic damage, it wouldn't pop Ravana's counter), making me want to use it more often.
3) Traits to take shit off the goddamn GCD, aka SHIELD SWIPE. No, I'm still not over this.

In short: there was no good reason for traits to stop happening pre-50, especially considering how much work could still go into Job identity right now.

Edit: ^ I was about to mention Fight or Flight, but then I decided to make an entire post fleshing shit out.

[Niiro]

FoF didn't seem worth mentioning really, WAR has Berserk and DRK.....yea they don't really get a skill like that, the base potency of their WSs is just higher in general.

The point was PLD has no full time damage boosting equivalent to Maim or Darkside, both of which have a far larger effect than either Berserk or FoF in the long run.

[Lucavi]

FoF didn't seem worth mentioning really, WAR has Berserk and DRK.....yea they don't really get a skill like that, the base potency of their WSs is just higher in general.

The point was PLD has no full time damage boosting equivalent to Maim or Darkside, both of which have a far larger effect than either Berserk or FoF in the long run.

Which could be solved by merging Fight or Flight into a combo via trait, even with a damage reduction to the actual ability; they could simply tweak the buff amount to being a slight overall DPS increase over the current ability when kept up 100% of a fight.

[Lokus]

If they are gonna do something to remove clutter, should def just make Sword Oath a trait if they are going to keep it as is. I don't see any point to not be in either stance. The same for Defiance/Deliverance with Deliverance being the default caked-in stance to WAR with Defiance modifying abilities to be tanky in nature.

[Carth]

Which could be solved by merging Fight or Flight into a combo via trait, even with a damage reduction to the actual ability; they could simply tweak the buff amount to being a slight overall DPS increase over the current ability when kept up 100% of a fight.

My problem with this is although it's a good idea, it also makes PLD play more like WAR, which I personally want to avoid because while WAR's mechanics are awesome, I prefer PLD having it's own flair to it.

Honestly, PLD hasn't really been a Final Fantasy PLD until the expansion, and now I understand why SE has been avoiding that. They don't really know how to make a "utility tank" work without giving them heaps upon heaps of defense. Really, the only way to make a mitigation tank work is to make them self-sustaining. That means allow them to keep themselves up until they run out of resources. Being able to survive anything allows all the members in your group to have an overall dps increase since healers can also deal damage comfortably.

Alternatively, they can rework PLD's new abilities to allow it so they can have potent debuffs on the mob. Shield Swipe used to be awesome until everything that mattered resisted it. Shield Bash is also extremely terrible for the same reason and it costs way too much TP.

That said though since PLD isn't a bad job by any means I can't see them thinking they need to make QoL changes, let alone buffing it.

[Taint]

Shield Swipe used to be awesome until everything that mattered resisted it. Shield Bash is also extremely terrible for the same reason and it costs way too much TP.

^ This part is really annoying. I can't even bash/pacify trash mobs in Alexander. Its bad enough not being able to pacify anything that matters but now we can't even pacify stuff that doesn't matter.

[Kaslo]

^ This part is really annoying. I can't even bash/pacify trash mobs in Alexander. Its bad enough not being able to pacify anything that matters but now we can't even pacify stuff that doesn't matter.

To be fair, shield bash is pretty legit on T3 twister phase.

[Lucavi]

My problem with this is although it's a good idea, it also makes PLD play more like WAR, which I personally want to avoid because while WAR's mechanics are awesome, I prefer PLD having it's own flair to it.

I don't want it playing like War either, but I also want to be able to use all of my moves. Tell me when I can use shield swipe. TELL ME! D:

[Aiurily]

Well Swipe is a DPS loss now so only reason to use it would be for TP reasons.

well its higher potency average than halone combo; so if 3 shield swipes is higher aggro than the halone combo, maybe you could just make it by with that, especially on something like a4 where the halone str debuff is mostly useless in some phases

[Niiro]

If all of Alex's attacks are magical you'll never get a proc for Swipe anyway unless you're fighting adds.

[Obsidian]

Uh... are we forgetting that Fight or Flight exists? I know it can't be full-timed like Maim and Darkside but it's still a very potent CD for boosting your damage on PLD

Fight or Flight is only an average damage increase of 10% because of its duration. Maim is a flat 20% and I don't know what Darkside is but I'm sure it's more than 10%. Never mind that WAR is bypassing the damage penalty on Defiance ~12% of the time because of Unchained. More than ever, PLD seems meant to be an off-tank, because it can't compete with the threat generation of DRK or WAR, and it can't compete with the MT DPS of WAR.

We're not likely to see many physical tank busters because Sheltron would make PLD too good at mitigating them. PLD's mitigation is actively working against it.

[Carth]

Darkside is +15% Damage, So with Grit attached DRK is suffering a 5% damage reduction. It's essentially a Maim that they never have to apply.