Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[ayaya]

Block rate, how does it work?

I couldn't find any up-to-date information, so I did some 10-minute parses on lone enemies with Hive Scutum and Asuran Greatshield to compare the block rates. During the parse I did nothing except get smacked in the face by the mob; I used no abilities and did not autoattack, and made sure to keep facing the mob constantly.

In case Parry is relevant to block chance (I'm not sure whether it is), with Hive Scutum equipped I have 581 Parry, and with Asuran Greatshield it's 578. Dexterity no longer affects the chance as far as I know.

First I tested this on a level 59 mob (6th Legion Secutor), because I had trouble finding level 60 mobs that had a reasonable attack speed and didn't constantly cast annoying abilities. Results:

Hive Scutum, Mob level: 59
Block: 40
Parry: 32
Hit: 172
Total: 244

Asuran Greatshield, Mob level: 59
Block: 40
Parry: 23
Hit: 176
Total: 239

As you can see, the results came out completely nonsensical, and I assure you this is not because I forgot to change my shield between parses. According to this data there's virtually no difference between the blockrate of the two shields, despite Hive Scutum having the stat at 183 and Asuran Greatshield having it at 322. This reckons out to a 16.4% block rate for the Hive Scutum and a 16.7% rate for Asuran Greatshield.

So I sought out a B-rank hunt (namely Omni) and did the same parse on him. Due to his lower attack speed and me dodging his weapon skills, there are less incoming hits here.

Hive Scutum, Mob level: 60
Block: 25
Parry: 12
Hit: 108
Total: 145

Asuran Greatshield, Mob level: 60
Block: 37
Parry: 16
Hit: 96
Total: 149

These seem a lot more reasonable. According to these numbers, Hive Scutum has a block rate of 17.2% while Asuran Greatshield has a block rate of 24.8%. Going by this, the percentage doesn't seem to be (Block Rate)/10.

Additionally, it looks like it either isn't linear, or there is something that affects block chance than just the Block Rate stat. Asuran Greatshield has a 76% higher Block Rate, but the parsed percentage is only 44% higher.

Making the scaling nonlinear sounds pretty nonsensical, so I can only guess there's something else that also affects your block chance. Some sources on the internet say that Parry affects your chance to block (although the in-game tooltip does not mention this, but the localized tooltips have been wrong before), and that would probably explain it.

I haven't bought the Esoterics shield yet so I couldn't do that one, but assuming the rate scales linearly it should be within a couple of percents of Asuran Greatshield.

The sample size here is reasonably small, so take these numbers with a grain of salt. The result on the level 59 mob puzzles me quite a bit, I have no idea why it is like that. I can't be arsed to repeat the parse at 6am, so for now the possibility of it being a fluke can't be ruled out.

PS: I have this all in a googledoc with some simple piecharts, but I can't post links or pictures yet so yeah. Or what the hell, just stitch this together if you really want to see it:

docs.google.

com/spreadsheets/d/14Vtsm46MC9w7ChiZp1UDuBRmhwyKoSBjdOoRUs3yloA/edit

PPS: Yoshi-P pls drop this silly forced stat obscurity. This information should be directly available to players so that we can make an informed decision between high-strength low-rate and balanced shields.

[Jahaudant]

Looking at my old PLD spreadsheet the formula for block rate I had was this

=((DEX/67)+(BR*0.0876)+6.18)/100

At the time this was producing pretty accurate results, but as of HW I don't know how accurate it is... didn't they remove DEX from these calcs? Anyway, I highlighted a bit that you might find is the culprit in your two tests differences in block rate.

Edit: I'd need a lot more testing to get a real formula but this one fits your results roughly.

((BR*0.0596)+6.18)/100

Edit 2: BR = shields block rating.

[Niiro]

STR and DEX no longer have any effect on block/parry strength or rate.

[ayaya]

I ran a couple of Fractal Continuums without using Bulwark or Sheltron (sorry healers!) to get some more data. I filtered dodged attacks as well as criticals out of these statistics because those are both unblockable. There are probably a few attacks that hit me from flank or behind and couldn't be blocked that skew these results, even though I did my best to face all the mobs while tanking.

Results:

Hive Scutum
Blocked: 135
Parried: 116
Hit: 657
Total: 908

Asuran Greatshield
Blocked: 134
Parried: 81
Hit: 544
Total: 759

These put the block rate of Hive Scutum at 14.9%, and the block rate of Asuran Greatshield at 17.7%, which sounds wrong.

Going by the lower Parry rate for the Asuran parse (12.8% vs. 10.7%) and there being only a 3 point difference in Parry rating between the two shields, I'm inclined to believe there must've been more hits from behind or flanks when I was using Asuran.

If we assume that the parry chance between the two shields should be pretty much equal and use the Hive Scutum parse as a baseline, then there must've been 126 total unparryable/blockable attacks in the parse.

If we subtract those 126 attacks from the Hits for Asuran and then punch the numbers again, we get a block chance of 21.2% and a parry chance of 12.8%. This *seems* sensible, as this way difference in block rate between the two shields would be similar to the numbers I got yesterday, with Asuran blocking roughly 7% more often than Hive. Disclaimer: I'm bad at statistics.

I still trust the numbers I got yesterday to be more accurate than these because they were done in a controlled environment, but after weighing the Asuran parse it seems these new numbers support the earlier ones.

EDIT: The new parse results are in the spreadsheet I linked in my previous post, along with some simple graphs, if you want to see them for yourself.

[Dr. Pavel]

Trying to argue with OF people about PLD currently sucking in Savage has got to be one of the most miserable experiences I've had. At least if SE is serious about looking at Savage clear statistics they'll realize PLD is being ditched by most serious groups and thus needs fixes, whatever angry OF shitters say.

[Edelweiss]

Trying to argue with OF people about PLD currently sucking in Savage has got to be one of the most miserable experiences I've had. At least if SE is serious about looking at Savage clear statistics they'll realize PLD is being ditched by most serious groups and thus needs fixes, whatever angry OF shitters say.

At least you (yet) didn't get banned for saying "shit" in a thoughtful attempt to yet again try and lead the "PLD IS FINE OMG" crowd to water. Because Taint did.

I called Phoenicia out on whiteknighting the fuck out of WAR and just generally being an idiot who refuses to see why PLD's flaws aren't a feature, and got banned for it too. One of the highlights of their staunch stupidity is that they think PLD's enmity problems are about who gets to be the main tank (failing/declining to understand things even after Taint TL;DRed the fucking issues for them).

If you're arguing with them, they're definitely one butthurt little bitch. I'm pretty sure they ran for the mods on both Taint and I. lol It's the OF, of course, but we can only hope the dev team isn't as incompitent/ignorant about how things work as they seem to be (PLD being fucked up like this didn't really require Savage to make plainly obvious; could say the same thing for AST too).

[Obsidian]

Trying to argue with OF people about PLD currently sucking in Savage has got to be one of the most miserable experiences I've had. At least if SE is serious about looking at Savage clear statistics they'll realize PLD is being ditched by most serious groups and thus needs fixes, whatever angry OF shitters say.

It's the same argument people used in XI and it's the same argument people will always use. "It doesn't die so it's fine."

[Edelweiss]

It's the same argument people used in XI and it's the same argument people will always use. "It doesn't die so it's fine."

They're more than likely the same people who actually bought Body-slot Esoterics over weapons too, you know.

[Jem]

I had an argument on another forum about PLD being bad just yesterday. A new player was starting and wanted to be tank so I advised he steer clear of PLD if he had any intention of doing endgame. If he didn't then pick whatever. Someone jumped down my throat saying WAR was bad and PLD was good because PLD was virtually invincible.

I attempted to explain my reasoning and the response I got was basically 'Pick fun jobs not good jobs, jobs get rebalanced all the time. People like you are what is wrong with MMO's.'

My response was that it was a bigger dick move to tell someone to level a job without warning them of negatives. He didn't respond after that.

[Taint]

At least you (yet) didn't get banned for saying "shit" in a thoughtful attempt to yet again try and lead the "PLD IS FINE OMG" crowd to water. Because Taint did.

I called Phoenicia out on whiteknighting the fuck out of WAR and just generally being an idiot who refuses to see why PLD's flaws aren't a feature, and got banned for it too. One of the highlights of their staunch stupidity is that they think PLD's enmity problems are about who gets to be the main tank (failing/declining to understand things even after Taint TL;DRed the fucking issues for them).

If you're arguing with them, they're definitely one butthurt little bitch. I'm pretty sure they ran for the mods on both Taint and I. lol It's the OF, of course, but we can only hope the dev team isn't as incompitent/ignorant about how things work as they seem to be (PLD being fucked up like this didn't really require Savage to make plainly obvious; could say the same thing for AST too).

Over 1000 post, most with decent info and I get Perma banned for saying "shit tier DPS" lol

Its sad, but those forums are for the delusional, the unaccepting and the my 12.99 crowd.

[Ramset]

They're more than likely the same people who actually bought Body-slot Esoterics over weapons too, you know.

Ran A1 normal in DF last week with a few friends (about half pre-made). We went through 3 shit tier DRKs that had to be kicked from party and all 3 had eso body lol. They'd enter instance and I said "please don't be wearing eso body piece" (after the first guy), and then they'd drop down ramp. What were they wearing? Yep.

[Edelweiss]

I had an argument on another forum about PLD being bad just yesterday. A new player was starting and wanted to be tank so I advised he steer clear of PLD if he had any intention of doing endgame. If he didn't then pick whatever. Someone jumped down my throat saying WAR was bad and PLD was good because PLD was virtually invincible.

I attempted to explain my reasoning and the response I got was basically 'Pick fun jobs not good jobs, jobs get rebalanced all the time. People like you are what is wrong with MMO's.'

My response was that it was a bigger dick move to tell someone to level a job without warning them of negatives. He didn't respond after that.

lol @ PLD being anything close to invincible (except for 10 seconds)

I mean by the time the dude hits 60 I guess it'll probably be 3.1. That said, that's placing a lot of faith in the devs to actually hit all of PLD's problems to begin with (and that would be a bet I'd rather not place money on). Still, you did the right thing IMO.

Over 1000 post, most with decent info and I get Perma banned for saying "shit tier DPS" lol

Its sad, but those forums are for the delusional, the unaccepting and the my 12.99 crowd.

I should check and see if I got perma' too; I (arguably) actually might have broken some rules or something by ripping into that retard. You being perma'd over that though.. fucking lol.

Ran A1 normal in DF last week with a few friends (about half pre-made). We went through 3 shit tier DRKs that had to be kicked from party and all 3 had eso body lol. They'd enter instance and I said "please don't be wearing eso body piece" (after the first guy), and then they'd drop down ramp. What were they wearing? Yep.

Hurray for an almost cancerous misunderstanding of upgrade priorities.

[Taint]

NEVER

[Lokus]

Not sure about how shit scales for tanks but for some dps, Body piece isn't a herp derp upgrade. For SMN at least body piece in week 2 and then ring in week 3 outpaces the weapon slightly. In week 4, weapon/ring would outpace body/ring, then they'd equal out in week 5 when you have all 3.

[ayaya]

I advised he steer clear of PLD if he had any intention of doing endgame.
[...]
'Pick fun jobs not good jobs, jobs get rebalanced all the time.'

Let's be real here, fotmrolling in this game (or in any game, I'd argue) is pretty pointless unless you're very hardcore about your raiding. While it's true that PLD isn't the optimal choice for bleeding edge savage progression right now, for anyone not in that particular niche every class in the game is viable.

Chances are the current fotm won't even be relevant to them by the time they hit 60. It may shift after they do their balance pass with the data they say they've been collecting from savage Alex, and even if nothing changes, by 3.1 the content will be old enough to make carefully minmaxing your raid composition irrelevant.

So yeah, I think you were acting a bit pretentious advicing the newbie to stay clear of PLD just because the groups pushing the final boss of a two weeks old raid aren't using it.

[Niiro]

Not sure about how shit scales for tanks but for some dps, Body piece isn't a herp derp upgrade. For SMN at least body piece in week 2 and then ring in week 3 outpaces the weapon slightly. In week 4, weapon/ring would outpace body/ring, then they'd equal out in week 5 when you have all 3.

People keep saying stuff like this when we don't even have updated stat weights.

[MrSamuels]

I had a big long post for the OF with some improvements, decided not to post it due to the cluster fuck that is the official forum, hopefully the moon speakers have something to say about it as they actually seem to have an impact on changes over the NA/EU bullshit.

[Lokus]

People keep saying stuff like this when we don't even have updated stat weights.

Don't need updated stat weights to beat on a dummy and parse the damage.

[Carth]

NEVER

I like how it always says "Despite our repeated warnings".

[Niiro]

Don't need updated stat weights to beat on a dummy and parse the damage.

If you have such detailed testing why not share it, there are a lot of people that would like to know this stuff.