Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Churchill]

Here's some month old info. If your class isn't Dragoon, you can make some simple leaps to what might be different for your class, if anything.

WD: 10.625
STR: 1
DET: 0.139
CRT: 0.162
SS: 0.104

[Jahaudant]

Don't need updated stat weights to beat on a dummy and parse the damage.

I'd love to know how many comparative dummy parses you did of 100% identical (and flawless) rotation and timing that allowed you to see the effects of minor changes in secondary stats between 2 single pieces of same ilvl gear.

That is so really impressive dedication.

[Jem]

Let's be real here, fotmrolling in this game (or in any game, I'd argue) is pretty pointless unless you're very hardcore about your raiding. While it's true that PLD isn't the optimal choice for bleeding edge savage progression right now, for anyone not in that particular niche every class in the game is viable.

Chances are the current fotm won't even be relevant to them by the time they hit 60. It may shift after they do their balance pass with the data they say they've been collecting from savage Alex, and even if nothing changes, by 3.1 the content will be old enough to make carefully minmaxing your raid composition irrelevant.

So yeah, I think you were acting a bit pretentious advicing the newbie to stay clear of PLD just because the groups pushing the final boss of a two weeks old raid aren't using it.

Not really. I told him that if he was going to play casual / not worried about endgame then it doesn't matter what he picks. If he does care about endgame/minmaxing then he should probably steer clear from PLD as his first job.

Whereas until that point PLD was being portrayed as far better than what it was. Keep in mind the discussion literally had the phrases 'PLD is virtually invincible' and 'WAR is bad'. I told him the flaws of the jobs and then told him PLD wasn't ideal for endgame but for anything else it didn't matter what job he picked.

I know that I personally would be pissed off if I started a game, got told a job was really good, leveled it to cap and then found out it was not. Granted I'm not a typical player but I would want to know a jobs weaknesses before I leveled it so that it was then my decision if I opted to do it anyway.

[Carth]

After playing DRK to 58 and then switching back to PLD to Eso farming, I am legit pissed off at PLD's terrible enmity generation. DRK has so many oGCDs and ways to buff their damage consistently that I barely ever have to use Grit for boss fights, let alone Power Slash. Sword Oath PLD can't even use Royal Authority without good DPS creeping very quickly to taking aggro.

I knew PLD was underwhelming this patch but this is just beyond levels of ridiculous. Worst single target DPS, worst AoE DPS, worst enmity generation, worst utility (which is supposed to be its fucking highlight). I am so fucking close to benching this job.

[Taint]

After playing DRK to 58 and then switching back to PLD to Eso farming, I am legit pissed off at PLD's terrible enmity generation. DRK has so many oGCDs and ways to buff their damage consistently that I barely ever have to use Grit for boss fights, let alone Power Slash. Sword Oath PLD can't even use Royal Authority without good DPS creeping very quickly to taking aggro.

I knew PLD was underwhelming this patch but this is just beyond levels of ridiculous. Worst single target DPS, worst AoE DPS, worst enmity generation, worst utility (which is supposed to be its fucking highlight). I am so fucking close to benching this job.

Yep, its horrible compared to DRK/WAR. WAR got the best update leveling to 60. Its much more fluid to play besides their toys. WAR is by the far the easiest tank job to play now and the best.

DRK is very clunky to play but nobody can argue its ability to burst with oGCDs and generate agro. That 6.5x modifier on hand is just awesome. I bet we see a PLD buff with 3.1 or SE is delusional.

[Dr. Pavel]

I doubt I'll bench PLD simply because its been my main forever, but yeah, it seems like the stupidest shit that Halone combo keeps its old enmity modifiers despite also being the lowest potency enmity combo of all 3 tanks. Goring Blade and Royal Authority are fucking cool and Divine Veil is actually kinda decent but Clemency is a total misfire of a skill and Sheltron is useless in Savage. I'm still not sure why they insist on having PLD have no AoE whatsoever, at this point I'd be happy with them just lazily making Shield Swipe a cone AoE at least.

[ayaya]

Not really. I told him that if he was going to play casual / not worried about endgame then it doesn't matter what he picks. If he does care about endgame/minmaxing then he should probably steer clear from PLD as his first job.

My point is that "endgame" refers to the content, not the attitude you have towards clearing this content. Savage Alex will still be the endgame until 3.2 (or so I'd assume), and completing it as PLD (as well as any other "bad" class like AST, MCH, BRD, ...) before it becomes obsolote is most certainly possible.

I agree the other guy wasn't giving him an objective picture either, though.

I doubt I'll bench PLD simply because its been my main forever, but yeah, it seems like the stupidest shit that Halone combo keeps its old enmity modifiers despite also being the lowest potency enmity combo of all 3 tanks. Goring Blade and Royal Authority are fucking cool and Divine Veil is actually kinda decent but Clemency is a total misfire of a skill and Sheltron is useless in Savage. I'm still not sure why they insist on having PLD have no AoE whatsoever, at this point I'd be happy with them just lazily making Shield Swipe a cone AoE at least.

The self-healing component of a Clemency cast on someone else should pop Divine Veil, would give the ability at least some utility beyond rare clutch situations.

When they first announced Sheltron I was hoping it was going to be like Shield Block was in WoW when I still played it, increasing your block chance for the next two attacks by 75% or something. I think if Sheltron just blocked the next two incoming attacks instead of just one it'd be a lot more useful, at least it would be reliable against some physical tankbusters that way.

Circle of Scorn should be reworked into a Consecration -type ground AoE DoT to give Paladins some much-needed AoE. Lack of cleaves like Overpower doesn't particularly bother me, but Circle of Scorn has always felt like wasted potential with its silly design.

[Raldo]

When they first announced Sheltron I was hoping it was going to be like Shield Block was in WoW when I still played it, increasing your block chance for the next two attacks by 75% or something. I think if Sheltron just blocked the next two incoming attacks instead of just one it'd be a lot more useful, at least it would be reliable against some physical tankbusters that way.

Circle of Scorn should be reworked into a Consecration -type ground AoE DoT to give Paladins some much-needed AoE. Lack of cleaves like Overpower doesn't particularly bother me, but Circle of Scorn has always felt like wasted potential with its silly design.

Force shield blocks for a few seconds seems like what they should've done, like WAR's force parry ability.

Also, WAR DRUMMMM come on SE you did it once.

[Eludi]

After playing DRK to 58 and then switching back to PLD to Eso farming, I am legit pissed off at PLD's terrible enmity generation. DRK has so many oGCDs and ways to buff their damage consistently that I barely ever have to use Grit for boss fights, let alone Power Slash. Sword Oath PLD can't even use Royal Authority without good DPS creeping very quickly to taking aggro.

I knew PLD was underwhelming this patch but this is just beyond levels of ridiculous. Worst single target DPS, worst AoE DPS, worst enmity generation, worst utility (which is supposed to be its fucking highlight). I am so fucking close to benching this job.

Personally only real change they should make would be to increase rage of halone enmity modifier, everything else about the job seems quite fine, our healers definitely prefer pld over drk, allows more dps output.

[Jem]

My point is that "endgame" refers to the content, not the attitude you have towards clearing this content. Savage Alex will still be the endgame until 3.2 (or so I'd assume), and completing it as PLD (as well as any other "bad" class like AST, MCH, BRD, ...) before it becomes obsolote is most certainly possible.

I agree the other guy wasn't giving him an objective picture either, though.

It's certainly possible, I mean our static has a PLD, AST and BRD. Although BRD isn't really detrimental right now due to their utility. It's just obviously no ideal. May get fixed in future but there's no guarantee of that.

Personally only real change they should make would be to increase rage of halone enmity modifier, everything else about the job seems quite fine, our healers definitely prefer pld over drk, allows more dps output.

Oaths off global cooldown please Also Swipe to not be useless. Well not useless, just more useful.

[Dr. Pavel]

If they're gonna give WAR such good TP management with Equilibrium and 0 TP cost GCDs I think PLD and DRK should have it too. I wouldn't mind if we lost the anti-knockback effect from Tempered Will if it was a TP restore cooldown, tbh.

[Carth]

Personally only real change they should make would be to increase rage of halone enmity modifier, everything else about the job seems quite fine, our healers definitely prefer pld over drk, allows more dps output.

This is almost entirely placebo.

The only thing PLD has over DRK is Shield off-hand and Dark Dance(or rather Parry in general) being completely mediocre. Beyond that, DRK rips PLD to shreds in just about everything else. Their AoE damage is massive, their single target DPS is good, and their mitigation is strong especially vs Magic since Dark Mind is on a 60s cooldown, making it reliable for nearly every magic tank buster.

PLD's utility is very average on a good day. Clemency needs to be instant cast or at the very least guaranteed to not be interrupted to be any sense of the word reliable. As of now it can't be used to heal through tank busters (which is when you would mostly use it) and the cast time is far too long. Stoneskin is better than Clemency is nearly every way, especially in MP cost and not risking overlapping with healer's curebombs.
Shelltron lacks consistency due to auto-attacks being a thing and being unusable vs magic damage. Shield Swipe should cease to exist. Shield Bash costs way too much TP. Divine Veil and Stoneskin are the only real noteworthy utility abilities from PLD, and Stoneskin in particular you'll rarely being using during DPS checks.

And I just don't get how your healers can say PLD allows more dps output. Sure, they may be doing more dps, but is the overall raid dps higher than if you had a DRK? I bet not, because DRK's damage in both AoE and Single Target are doing far more than PLD when it's forced to sit in Shield Oath, and DRK is more than adequate in tanking bosses as long as they pop a cooldown. Let alone, as a WHM, Holy literally doesn't care what job is tanking because it stuns. I've played with literally every tank and as long as they're not complete garbage I've never had to change my style. This isn't even getting into how WAR decimates both jobs.

I've talked about this before a few pages back, but if PLD isn't going to have the same dps as DRK/WAR, it needs to be able to raise overall raid dps by either having reliable utility or having debuffs that increase the party's dps such as a Vulnerability Up.

[Taint]

I'd be willing to bet that Halone gets a bumped Modifier based on Yoshi's last interview. It really needs to be 6-6.5 to compensate for its lower potency.

Clemency is incredibly poor due to the 3 second cast. Instant cast for 5k mp would be better IMO or instant cast half potency.

And yes WAR has ZERO TP issues. On single targets I never even need equilibrium with all the 0TP FC/IBs.

[Carth]

Rage of Halone needed an enmity boost yesterday.

[Raldo]

Shame there's no TRAITS beyond lv50, because if all they do is bump Rage o' Hello it's going to make ye olde 50-cap stuff a bit difficult to OT in some cases (mainly just annoying for Trials Roulette, but still).

[Taint]

Shame there's no TRAITS beyond lv50, because if all they do is bump Rage o' Hello it's going to make ye olde 50-cap stuff a bit difficult to OT in some cases (mainly just annoying for Trials Roulette, but still).

A quick fix would be to put an enmity modifier on Royal and goring (initial hit only) just make it low like x2 so it doesn't mess with OTing but gives just enough edge while MTing.

[lolwut]

A quick fix would be to put an enmity modifier on Royal and goring (initial hit only) just make it low like x2 so it doesn't mess with OTing but gives just enough edge while MTing.

Or just increase the Shield Oath modifier, giving the same edge while maintaining the anti-stance swap meta Yoshi seems to be pushing for the job.

[Neon_Sea]

Just turn clemency into fell cleave imo

[Lucavi]

Not even gonna post my comments because you guys know how I feel and what I want, but yeah, they're buffing Pld enimity soon. We can at least kill that discussion shortly.

[Taim Meich]

They'll boost Flash enmity and lower Halone's for balance -_-