Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Kaslo]

Are you fucking kidding me. We get nothing whilst they give a job like MNK a buff?

As a PLD and a BRD, this dev team seriously depresses me.

To be fair, did we expect anything when the LL didn't really say anything about PLD?

[Dr. Pavel]

It'd be nice if they at least acknowledged the current tank meta is a fucking mess.

[Grey Jorildyn]

What could they really do to PLD right now? Increase potencies? Too stronk. Enhance its DR? Useless. I mean the best I can think of is putting stances ogcd. But is that gonna matter in the longrun?

I feel like they need more time to adjust it rather than just hotfixing something overnight. I mean let's face it, the blood weapon buff is useless in tank stance. That is an underwhelming buff. PLD needs more attention than that.

[Carth]

The issue is we don't really know if they realize PLD is having issues right now. The enmity boost they mentioned is an adjustment for all tanks.

[Edelweiss]

What could they really do to PLD right now? Increase potencies? Too stronk. Enhance its DR? Useless. I mean the best I can think of is putting stances ogcd. But is that gonna matter in the longrun?

I feel like they need more time to adjust it rather than just hotfixing something overnight. I mean let's face it, the blood weapon buff is useless in tank stance. That is an underwhelming buff. PLD needs more attention than that.

If they were to adjust the restrictions on ability/skill use for DRK, this could be amazing if the Grit lockout was lifted. Then again, removing the Grit-conditional lockout in general would do a lot for making DRK less cumbersome (and fun to play, not to mention effective).

The issue is we don't really know if they realize PLD is having issues right now. The enmity boost they mentioned is an adjustment for all tanks.

They most likely do not know. Or maybe they do and don't give a fuck, who knows with this dev team. Regardless, it could go the same way as the BRD and WM stance they have (in terms of all the issues PLD has): too bad, this is in line with our vision of the job.

Even if that vision is fucking retarded and totally ruins the job, making it unplayable or markedly worse than the alternatives (or just simply not fun).

[Taint]

The issue is we don't really know if they realize PLD is having issues right now. The enmity boost they mentioned is an adjustment for all tanks.

I'm pretty sure they are happy with PLD as a tank and the OF player base seems to agree with them.

[Niiro]

What could they really do to PLD right now? Increase potencies? Too stronk. Enhance its DR? Useless. I mean the best I can think of is putting stances ogcd. But is that gonna matter in the longrun?

I feel like they need more time to adjust it rather than just hotfixing something overnight. I mean let's face it, the blood weapon buff is useless in tank stance. That is an underwhelming buff. PLD needs more attention than that.

-oGCD stances (keep the MP cost)
-oGCD swipe, short cooldown, recovers a small amount of TP
-oGCD Clemency, 20-30s recast, allow you to proc your own Divine Veil with it (possibly reduce the potency to 800-1000)
-significantly higher hate mod on Halone
-higher hate mod on CoS, hate mod applied to DoT damage as well (currently only effects the initial 100 potency, less than half of the net potency)

[Edelweiss]

-oGCD stances (keep the MP cost)
-oGCD swipe, short cooldown, recovers a small amount of TP
-oGCD Clemency, 20-30s recast, allow you to proc your own Divine Veil with it
-significantly higher hate mod on Halone
-higher hate mod on CoS, hate mod applied to DoT damage as well (currently only effects the initial 100 potency, less than half of the net potency)

To add to this: Spellcasting and Oath swapping would need to not interrupt combos, and spellcasting would probably need to allow blocks at least to proc (or parry too). Also Flash (and other tank-source Blinds, like DRK's Dark Passenger) should probably be a non-stacking variant of the Blind status effect. Probably just make it inherent to it as well so WAR gains some small benefit if they still choose to cross-class it.

This now sounds like a job that wouldn't punish me for trying to be anything but a mediocre shitter who 24/7s Shield Oath.

Also, Halone's potency as a combo should probably be raised to be more in line with those of DRK and WAR.

[Niiro]

Clemency and Oaths being oGCD entails that they would not interrupt combos, as they would be abilities.

Clemency would not have cast time.

[Taint]

Clemency and Oaths being oGCD entails that they would not interrupt combos, as they would be abilities.

Clemency would not have cast time.

Those two changes I would put as critically important. How many times would they ever expect a PLD to cast clemency during a fight? 5 times, 10 times?

Because Equilibrium shits on clemency and can be used every minute for TP or a major heal.

[OPneedNerfs]

You know I think it's time to listen to the many many other WARs views from the OF.

I did, I stopped tanking for good. Tried DRK on release, didn't like how some skills didn't synergize with one another, tried going back to PLD, realized it was in a terrible spot endgame, didn't bother with WAR because nerfs will definitely be coming soon.

Now I'm happy as can be as a SMN without a care in the world about all the OF Tank e-peen and WAR supremacy where any buffs to PLD/DRK is jeered upon.

The game and people in the OF just want to discourage people from playing PLD and DRK and they have succeeded, at least for me.

[agrotc]

But if you make Oaths and Clemency abilities, you'd be able to use them while silenced, and that is just clearly way too overpowered compared to now with how much the game throws Silence at us.
/OF

[Dotsudoku]

As a PLD main that's incredibly jealous of WARs fluidity, damage, and utility, I don't see or want any nerfs coming their way. It's a well designed tank, sure, and certainly the best at the moment, but it's apparent overpoweredness really ceases to exist without juxtaposition. It only comes close to keeping up with DPS that could themselves use some work, and those situations are usually limited to exceptional WARs vs mediocre DPS. Most of the ones I come across do about the same as my shit job, if not considerably less.

[Niiro]

didn't bother with WAR because nerfs will definitely be coming soon

lol

[Taint]

You know I think it's time to listen to the many many other WARs views from the OF.

I did, I stopped tanking for good. Tried DRK on release, didn't like how some skills didn't synergize with one another, tried going back to PLD, realized it was in a terrible spot endgame, didn't bother with WAR because nerfs will definitely be coming soon.

Now I'm happy as can be as a SMN without a care in the world about all the OF Tank e-peen and WAR supremacy where any buffs to PLD/DRK is jeered upon.

The game and people in the OF just want to discourage people from playing PLD and DRK and they have succeeded, at least for me.

WAR is by far the best tank, its not really intended discouragement as much as a dissection of the facts.

SMN is as broken as WAR. SMN,WHM,WAR had the best upgrades from 50-60.

[Kaslo]

WAR is by far the best tank, its not really intended discouragement as much as a dissection of the facts.

SMN is as broken as WAR. SMN,WHM,WAR had the best upgrades from 50-60.

Not just 50-60, but SMN also benefitted from the change to Bane allowing dots to unlimited targets.

[Carth]

WAR is by far the best tank, its not really intended discouragement as much as a dissection of the facts.

SMN is as broken as WAR. SMN,WHM,WAR had the best upgrades from 50-60.

I'd say SCH is on par with WHM. You'd definitely want both regardless as a heal party.

AST's much needed buffs though will make it competitive with WHM though. SCH has superior dps so they have a solid spot regardless.

[Taim Meich]

All the proposed PLD changes are necessary, but if ony one thing is going to change (and we know it, enmity will), if it is significant enough, PLD will be able to function much better as a MT. Right now, PLD can't use Goring and RA combos while main tanking in SO because they would lose hate quickly. And that's not a problem with WAR and DRK because their most damaging combos are also their enmity ones. We all know this. But if the enmity increase is substantial, and not only affects RoH but also Savage Blade, PLDs could potentially build some enmity at the beginning of the encounter (or take that lead from a provoke off the other tank), and then maintain it using much less Halone combos since Savage Blade on the RA combo would help on the enmity issue.

[Edelweiss]

All the proposed PLD changes are necessary, but if ony one thing is going to change (and we know it, enmity will), if it is significant enough, PLD will be able to function much better as a MT. Right now, PLD can't use Goring and RA combos while main tanking in SO because they would lose hate quickly. And that's not a problem with WAR and DRK because their most damaging combos are also their enmity ones. We all know this. But if the enmity increase is substantial, and not only affects RoH but also Savage Blade, PLDs could potentially build some enmity at the beginning of the encounter (or take that lead from a provoke off the other tank), and then maintain it using much less Halone combos since Savage Blade on the RA combo would help on the enmity issue.

It'd be kind of hilarious if, because of the way they phrased it, they actually increase the enmity mods of all tanks, except PLD still winds up with the worst modifiers yet again because they didn't understand that x5.5 and x5 aren't actually equal amounts to adjust from. A potency increase is probably in order as well, as the Halone combo is pretty far behind (70? potency off the top of my head); I don't expect to see this until we're at the tail end of 3.X, if ever.

These guys are bad enough at their own game to accomplish this feat.

[Kiarax]

And that's not a problem with WAR and DRK because their most damaging combos are also their enmity ones.

DRK actually has it worse than PLD, but the higher base enmity modifier and the ability to Dark Arts it for an even higher modifier kinda makes up for it. But the enmity combo is by far the weakest on DRK and PLD actually uses Savage Blade in it's DPS combo that it spams, whereas DRK actively avoids it as much as possible. I don't think PLD has any issues at all holding hate in Sword Oath, WAR has it super easy with their enmity combo being used for DPS, but both PLD and DRK are in the same boat and PLD gives up a lot less to do so. I think PLD is in a pretty bad spot right now but enmity isn't a problem in the slightest and it just seems really petty that people are torn up about the fact that they actually have to find a balance between building enmity and damage now, it's made tanking a lot more interesting to me and it doesn't bother me at all that WAR has it brainless in comparison.