Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Niiro]

Yea the HP scaling with SW is just there as a throwback to XI really and it can only serve to lower the damage, not increase it.

[Jahaudant]

Make Spirit's Within a fuckin' nuke like Fell Cleave (maybe stronger?) and tie it's scaling to VIT like suggested above.

[BaneTheBrawler]

yeah I'm super disappointed with Royal Authority. Bad design. It doesn't flow with the way pld worked, it's just kinda tacked on like "hey we heard you fuckers were bitching about dps, fucking here. now shut up."

it just feels like they put the same amount of thought into it as they did Wanderer's Minuet. (That would be none, for those of you who havent played bard at 50+)


Hopefully they'll fix pld so it's not so stupid.

[Niiro]

The fact that they left the hate mods on Savage/Halone the same is pretty much proof of that.

[nyttyn]

I don't even understand why they thought PLD was acceptable to ship in this state. Even a tiny bit of testing in the expert dungeons would have surely shown them just how much of a dysfunctional clusterfuck the class is compared to Warrior or even Dark Knight since Dark Knight's far less flawed in 4 man content.

It's frankly unexcusable that they've failed to acknowledge any of the concerns when the class fails on pretty much every conceivable level. By far the most abysmal AoE damage in the game, incredibly awful utility, a design philosiphy that seems to spite paladin's strengths (here's sheltron, a autoblock! Here's a series of encounters with NO MAJOR PHYSICAL HITS!), clunk everywhere, a plethora of buttons that have only the most situational of use in like maybe one or two encounters, bizzare ass shit like Spirits Within having lowered potency based on max HP on a class that will rarely be at 100% HP, and a reliance upon another class's debuff to come close to said class's DPS (warrior slashing down)

they didn't even give the 'mitigation tank' the universal damage down debuff I mean wtf how do you fuck up your design that badly?

I've pretty much given up on the class for now and fully expect the 'changes' to be increased aggro on savage blade and rage of halone.

[Dr. Pavel]

At the very least "PLD fucking sucks" seems to be gaining traction even if the shithole Official Forums and Reddit, the latter got a highly upvoted thread where somebody explains point by point why PLD is a god damn mess, whereas before if you so much as implied there was anything wrong with it you'd get a circlejerk of WAR manchildren screaming about "epic PLD tears" and it seems that regardless of the best attempts of idiots like Phoenicia in the OF people already realized that PLD isn't even remotely fine.

[Lyall]

I was afraid when they revealed the class preview stuff and said "Here's some new attacks for Paladin, to make it play more like Warrior does!" and then in the very next breath said "Here's a new design idea for WAR, because the 2.x design was lacking imagination!"

It came across very much like a hand-me-down. "We're redesigning WAR in regards to OT, so you get their old philosophy that we just said was lacking."

[Carth]

While I don't hate Royal Authority, it does feel "naked" in that it feels like it is missing something. It's nice that we have a combo dedicted to dealing damage, but Goring Blade already does that in spades. RA could really use something Paladin-ish to fit the mold better.

[Reasons]

Overbearing?

Put Savage blade to 4x, Halone to 6x, increase DRK and War's too.
Up Flash again.
Then its easier to tank in SwO.

Drop DV to 120s.

Make Clemency a HoT instead of a burst heal easier to be in sync with the healer and really relieve pressure without overhealing as often.

Have Shield Bash and Shield Swipe ignore the damage penalty of Shield Oath.

Put RA to 360.

[Raldo]

Make Clemency a HoT instead of a burst heal

This idea makes me wish that Clemency was just a buff you could turn on and off that would constantly drain your MP in return for a HoT effect. It would give some reason for Riot Blade to be returning MP.

[Taint]

I would co-sign those changes. Shield bash TP needs to be reduced to 70 and shield swipe needs a potency increase to 240 and cost 0 TP.

[Dein]

People are calling for massive changes in here and I sadly don't see anything like that happening because this is their design philosophy of the class:

Paladins are specialized in defense so their damage output is a little bit lower.

Of course it's painfully obvious by now that PLD is lacking in both categories but any changes they make to the class will probably be along this line of thinking unless the general player reaction to the current state of things is enough to convince them to change their minds.

The easiest way to make Sheltron useful on more fights would be to allow it to 'block' a single magic hit as well, mitigating damage based on your shield's block mitigation.

Shield Swipe in its current state needs both a potency boost and a tp cost reduction. If left on the GCD a potency of 300 and a tp cost of around 20 would be a pretty good reason to use it more often.

I like the idea of Sword Oath working regardless if Shield Oath is up or not but that makes things a bit too much like Grit and Darkside and I doubt we'll see anything like that happen. It'd probably be better for them to mess with Fight or Flight and extend the duration it can be up. Either by cutting the CD to 60 seconds or increasing the duration of the buff to 45 would be good.

[TheDirtyHobo]

"hey we heard you fuckers were bitching about dps, fucking here. now shut up."

This would be a more viable complaint if we didn't already have a thread showing that 2.x PLD in sword oath did more dps than WAR without defiance.

Then again, the OF and reddit's perception of things very rarely matches reality.

[Edelweiss]

This idea makes me wish that Clemency was just a buff you could turn on and off that would constantly drain your MP in return for a HoT effect. It would give some reason for Riot Blade to be returning MP.

Well, at this point just making it a (principally) HoT would be a dramatic improvement for Clemency.

How that's accomplished probably doesn't matter at all, aside from it being able to work reliably within a main tanking scenario (interrupts, etc.). That said, its means to that end are pretty much Regen, Medica II, or a Ballad/Paeon except for HP. Also probably Skill Speed scaling (or just making it instant..).

Of course, they'd probably have the song-esque version of Clemency still interrupt combos because balance.

This would be a more viable complaint if we didn't already have a thread showing that 2.x PLD in sword oath did more dps than WAR without defiance.

Then again, the OF and reddit's perception of things very rarely matches reality.

PLD in Sword Oath and WAR out of Defiance was pretty much the optimal approach. But that was then, and this is now. PLD is totally outclassed because it's still effectively mired in 2.X, whereas WAR recieved a big increase and DRK just offers more than PLD despite the issues within the toolkit (on top of having the meta catered to it).

[Carth]

Have Shield Bash and Shield Swipe ignore the damage penalty of Shield Oath.

You know what? This is actually a good idea.

With Shield Swipe ignoring Shield Oath's penalty, it would be a 14% average potency increase vs the RA combo.

Royal Authority: (120 + 160 + 272) = 552; 184 avg
Going Blade: (120 + 184 + 432) = 732; 244 avg
Shield Swipe: (210 + 210 + 210) = 630; 210 avg

You would still use Goring Blade for the DoT, but other than that, Shield Swipe becomes the go-to Weaponskill regardless of where you're at in your combo. It even makes sense considering you're using shield attacks in Shield Oath. This would fix Shield Swipe without having to do something majorly drastic and fits nicely with how PLD used to work back in 2.x.

Shield Bash needs a lot more to it for it to be even worth using though. 150 TP is insane and 110 potency is simply not worth it all.

[holanicky]

increase shield swipe dmg to 250, remove the TP cost.
Sheltron activate shield swipe and ensure the dmg to be critical.
pld MT/OT TP problem fixed.

enhanced flash also adds 50dmg to flash and refresh the DOT effect of Circle of Scorn on the targets.
pld AOE dps prblem fixed.

[Jem]

Completely off the wall idea here. How about they make Pacification worth a shit too. Does any other job have one of their debuffs just completely walled by pretty much everything?

[Niiro]

Sleep/Repose
all the many binds
Slow
Heavy
The lol-healing debuffs from Miasma/Eye/Dancing

[Jem]

Well the only one of those that is really relevant is slow. Sleep/Bind/Heavy shouldn't be viable against raid bosses really outside like maybe adds.

PLD get both stun and pacification walled by not only anything relevant, but also non-relevant dungeon fodder bosses and some fodder mobs.

[Classikmage]

Anyone know what "An Exemplary Example" LVL. 50 PLD HW quest is not in the spot it should be according to 3.0 patch notes? I have all 2.x PLD quests done, just finished up leveing AST and was gonna start on PLD, but I have no quest to push me into HW with.

EDIT: Never mind, I found it... it wasn't in the Steps of Thal, it was on the top area(same map as the ALC guild). -_-;