Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[BaneTheBrawler]

even the relic shield was limited by directionals (cant block anything youre not facing) procs/skill points and it didn't just flat out prevent damage; it often merely mitigated the amount taken. shadows suffered from none of those drawbacks, and if you timed them really well you could just not take damage at all.


i think SE is still terrified of what we'll do given any flexibility at all, primarily because of what we did to/with Ninja in XI.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I just don't see why they have to consider that a BAD thing though.

Like when Titan-Egi was able to walk all over Ramuh, I thought that was really cool. Sure it trivialized the entire fight, but it was trivial tier (loot-wise anyways) to begin with. What if this applied on a raid level? Sub in Titan for a tankbuster (somehow... pretend Titan had a voke for the sake of argument). Allow DRG or MNK to offtank in a pinch. Eos tank is best tank.

For all the broken bullshit 1.0's Armory system resulted in (hi tanking 3/5 of the world HNMs on DPS classes because of Emulate, hi tanking those on Thaumaturge to put tanks to shame, hi crossclass Sentinel required for Thornmarch), I think a lot of people would prefer options (even if many of them are inferior) than no options. At the very least it would give us a wider berth to wave around our e-cocks.

Let's stop on this train while we're here: talent trees.

[Carth]

Simple answer is its harder to balance. Perhaps even a nightmare to balance.

I mean, what we did with Utsusemi completely changed the game and almost entirely invalidated blood tanking.

[Cursed]

Its not up to us to balance PLD. Just dont play the class in protest. That's all that will get SE's attention.

[Hitoseijuro]

SE has a horrible track record of doing right by PLD.
Anyone remember Terra/Earth Staff days in XI?
They let that shit continue for 3-4 years before they introduced some passive traits that made shields viable. Even then, and with a relic shield, PLD wasn't nearly as effective at mitigating DMG or tanking as NIN/WAR and NIN/DRK were. It wasn't until the game had been out for the greater part of a decade that they started introducing gear/weapons/traits and abilities to make PLD the solid rock it was always meant to be.

I have a feeling history is going to repeat itself in XIV. Its going to be a long time until PLD becomes what it is supposed to be, and I'm not waiting for that long.
Everything PLD has right now is a joke.
Clemency is such garbage...don't bring it up.

Was this at 99? and/or with adoulin expac? Because pld was never ever useful in FFXI outside of holding HNMs while the party got there and maybe 1% content just for a safety net.

Everything was zergable and/or SE made the mistake of letting other jobs have access to MT/PDT gear which let them tank most content. Could tank cerberus on Sam or monk at 75 thanks to fire sets, tank khim np, nid np, think Tiamat was seen being tanked by sam or drk, certainly by rdm. Everything in sky was zergable at 75, people just didnt know it or understand it til later. Salvage/Nyzle no tank needed.

Abyssea just made things worse



I honestly think had ochain been out waaaaaaaaay sooner in ffxi's life, pld would have been in a better place, but ultimately never fixing the problem they had with its defensive stats being beyond useless outside of mt/pdt gear sets which was accessible to dps which hurt pld even more.

[Seravi Edalborez]

PLD/NIN had a decent presence for a time (CoP/ToAU) due to cure-cheat gearswap (swap to a set with lower max HP, swap back to tanking set, heal the missing HP, rake in dat enmity) and still having shadows. Tank DPS wasn't really judged (just sit there with weapon not even out bro, we got this) so it's not like we cared which job our tanks were on for Tiamat or Cerb.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I just don't see why they have to consider that a BAD thing though.

this is, i think, a cultural thing. i remember reading that the JP XI community was baffled by the NA community's insistence on making improvements, because apparently in japan you just played the game the way the devs wanted you to or went and did something else. This was revealed somewhat during the XIV Beta when they completely ignored all QoL reports and trash-talked "foreign media" for rumor-mongering while never making announcements in English.

For a global company, I think SE just doesn't have a very good grasp of how to handle fans outside Japan.

[Edelweiss]

PLD/NIN had a decent presence for a time (CoP/ToAU) due to cure-cheat gearswap (swap to a set with lower max HP, swap back to tanking set, heal the missing HP, rake in dat enmity) and still having shadows. Tank DPS wasn't really judged (just sit there with weapon not even out bro, we got this) so it's not like we cared which job our tanks were on for Tiamat or Cerb.

There was also PLD/RDM (or /WHM too I guess..) for those magic-heavy HNMs. That Magic Defense Bonus, plus all the misc. hate tools were kind of helpful as far as I remember.

[Hitoseijuro]

PLD/NIN had a decent presence for a time (CoP/ToAU) due to cure-cheat gearswap (swap to a set with lower max HP, swap back to tanking set, heal the missing HP, rake in dat enmity) and still having shadows. Tank DPS wasn't really judged (just sit there with weapon not even out bro, we got this) so it's not like we cared which job our tanks were on for Tiamat or Cerb.

Thats probably what hurt tanks in general, specifically pld which of the three actual ones at the time did the least damage, which back to the point I was making was, that SE put an enmity ceiling. 10000 ve/ce and that was it, it was only a matter of time before dps with proper buffs hit that threshold and as gear came out, made it too easy to hit.

Dont get me wrong, whenever I got a chance to bring my pld, I loved coming in dpsing cerb/khim and any other of them end game content peeps. Ares/homam or hauby/homam looked great on pld.

I would totally glam most of the pieces of homam for FFXIV if they brought that as a reskin. I was sad too see when Ares made it as a reskin glam but not Usukane.

[Edelweiss]

Thats probably what hurt tanks in general, specifically pld which of the three actual ones at the time did the least damage, which back to the point I was making was, that SE put an enmity ceiling. 10000 ve/ce and that was it, it was only a matter of time before dps with proper buffs hit that threshold and as gear came out, made it too easy to hit.

Dont get me wrong, whenever I got a chance to bring my pld, I loved coming in dpsing cerb/khim and any other of them end game content peeps. Ares/homam or hauby/homam looked great on pld.

I would totally glam most of the pieces of homam for FFXIV if they brought that as a reskin. I was sad too see when Ares made it as a reskin glam but not Usukane.

Lack of Panther/Tiger Mask for MNK is a fucking travesty. Even the tanks get to wear the lion head.

[Taint]

Big HNMLSs figured out quickly that DRK,WAR,SAM /NIN were the best tanks. But we used PLD/NIN to hold claims since they could build hate and not feed tp. Ochain was for holding mobs. I used to swap in and out of ochain/aegis for holding NMs in delve.

NIN RDM BRD were all great hate tanks but their dps didn't make them that desirable.

[Edelweiss]

Big HNMLSs figured out quickly that DRK,WAR,SAM /NIN were the best tanks. But we used PLD/NIN to hold claims since they could build hate and not feed tp. Ochain was for holding mobs. I used to swap in and out of ochain/aegis for holding NMs in delve.

NIN RDM BRD were all great hate tanks but their dps didn't make them that desirable.

Well, this all came after Logwatch drove me to quit then. I wonder if I have Beckwin's RDM tanking guide around somewhere; I bludgeoned some fucking retard to death with it and their refusal to understand VE and CE hate (also DMG:1 Daggers with Enspells to avoid feeding TP).

[Carth]

RDM tanking was pretty rad until SE nerfed it to oblivion.

[gaira]

to be fair utsusemi was completely broken until every mob began to strip shadows, especially with support keeping you hasted. the very minor skill required to cancel ni > ichi was all that was required to be mostly invincible for a long time.

[Prothescar]

All the sads that no one remembers BLU tanks

[Taint]

RDM tanking was pretty rad until SE nerfed it to oblivion.

It was rad for holding spawns and overall hate but a DRK or SAM could do the job and put out top notch dps.

DRK could cap haste/stun and SAM could use third eye if shadow timing messed up.

I never really saw any good BLU tanks they had some neat def tricks but def was worthless after lvl correction.

[Cursed]

There's nothing like tanking nidhogg @ 75 with as an apoc drk with 2x marchs and a haste.
60-100 other people watching, waiting for you to drop as you cata spam your way through hurricane wings, thinking you're invincible only to get terrored and land flat on your face.. good times

[Taint]

There's nothing like tanking nidhogg @ 75 with as an apoc drk with 2x marchs and a haste.
60-100 other people watching, waiting for you to drop as you cata spam your way through hurricane wings, thinking you're invincible only to get terrored and land flat on your face.. good times

DRK HNM tanking was the shit. My favorite part was listening to the PLDs with excel/aegis crying they could not get hate.

[Obsidian]

It was rad for holding spawns and overall hate but a DRK or SAM could do the job and put out top notch dps.

DRK could cap haste/stun and SAM could use third eye if shadow timing messed up.

I never really saw any good BLU tanks they had some neat def tricks but def was worthless after lvl correction.

RDM was the best Love tank.

[Taint]

Apoc/kclub DRK was the best Love tank.

Ftfy
But yes before people started just zerging him RDM was very nice on JOL even better than aegis PLD.