Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Classikmage]

.............can you add?

Someone has a "mother's basement" attitude. ....can you get a fucking life? I was just asking a question for verification.

[Carth]

Goring Blade blows Rage of Halone so hard it's not even a contest. Remember on the tooltip that Goring Blade is a DoT.

[Arelian]

Okay, but seriously.

Riot Blade -> Goring is 450 base potency before you add in the DoT ticks and Savage -> Halone is 460 base potency.

The question is still valid. Can you add? It's literally just basic addition.

[Carth]

I can only assume he's asking if spamming RoH is better than refreshing Goring Blade.

[octopus]

He did say "Assuming both combo bonuses are up and don't need to be refreshed"...

[MrSamuels]

That makes it even worse, in what MMO ever has clipping Damage over Time effects ever been a positive thing. (inb4 someone says old school wow where you got a trinket proc :D)

Just do the rotation RoH > Goring > RoH > RoH untill you get Royal Authority. Then never play your Paladin due to all the reasons in this thread.

[Carth]

He did say "Assuming both combo bonuses are up and don't need to be refreshed"...

I worded it that way because spamming Goring Blade would better than spamming RoH on an individual basis due to the DoTs even if you clip it as early as possible. It only takes 1 tick for it to have higher potency than RoH, and you'll get at least 2 ticks if you're intent on spamming it.

There's just no reason to because Goring Blade's DoT is so strong that you'll get more potency overall from letting the ticks go through.

You lose 240 Potency with spamming Goring Blade, and total out with 680 potency from the combo: (680 x 3) = 2040
The proper dps combo: GB > RoH > RoH = 2140 Potency. A Net gain of 100 potency.

[Hitoshura]

Why not just give Paladins the weapon skills the Paladin type Knights of the Round had? Dat super shield bash and sword combo is too nice, Holiest of Holy, just give it some retardedly good damage, make it an AOE.. and that's really it for the complaints right?

But nope, most likely going to leave Paladin to die like they did with Ninja in XI.

[Carth]

Getting Fell Cleave on WAR makes me so depressed about PLD. It really, really does.

[Edelweiss]

Getting Fell Cleave on WAR makes me so depressed about PLD. It really, really does.

It wasn't the ability to keep a 10% damage bonus for Slashing up full time, to flow seamlessly between Defiance and Deliverance, or the excellent defensive cooldowns that also have offensive uses? Fell Cleave is really good, just not really the biggest "welp, fucking PLD is dead" part.

[Carth]

It wasn't the ability to keep a 10% damage bonus for Slashing up full time, to flow seamlessly between Defiance and Deliverance, or the excellent defensive cooldowns that also have offensive uses? Fell Cleave is really good, just not really the biggest "welp, fucking PLD is dead" part.

Not downplaying all that stuff. I'm actually super jealous about the seamless stance dancing and how WAR seems to have fucking everything.

Fell Cleave is just the whammy you get when you realize you've blew through dungeon bosses in a much shorter time than on PLD with just a little bit of rotation practice. Playing DRK didn't make me feel that way at all, but playing WAR made me understand just how much of a gap there is between it and PLD.

Edit: I lied. I got that feeling with DRK too, just wasn't nearly as depressing.

[Taint]

My three step program for getting your tank confidence back:

Step one: admitting your job has a problem
Step two: level WAR
Step three: spend 2.2 weeks of ESO on an axe

Edit: step 3 reminded me of 2.2 when PLD was a thing and I am once again depressed.

[Hitoshura]

I have always played tank classes since XI, so leveling Warrior was inevitable. I have the i180 axe in my inventory waiting, saving up rest of my eso toward axe over rest of chaos set.

[KangerTech]

I like the idea of Clemency. If you have a healer that is letting you die you could just spam clemency. Otherwise I think the weapon skills added to paladin are completely useless. There are a lot of bad paladins too that cannot keep hate.

Most people switched to Dark Knight or Warrior because they are currently the best tank classes

I main dark knight and like it way better than paladin.

[Carth]

The new weaponskills are actually the only things that keeps Paladin relevant.

[Cursed]

Clemency is trash.
How to make a healing spell useless:
#1 - make it cost a shiton of MP
#2 - make its casting time ridiculously long
#3 - make it interruptible

At least two of the above need to go or change. Reduce casting time in half and MP cost in half. That's it, don't do anything else to PLD. We will accept being shittier at everything else but at least now we bring SOMETHING to the table.


However, if they want to fix this job here are 3 other things they should do:

1. Shield Swipe: add a passive job trait @ lvl55 to shield swipe: slow effect that is not resisted by bosses or an attack down effect.
2. Flash: add a passive job trait to Flash @lv52 - spell hits targeted mob and all enemies within a radius, increase enmity by 25%. (as opposed to flash effect taking place on mobs around the caster) Makes crowd control so much easier.
3.Sword Oath: Give us a flat 20% increase to all auto attacks and to all ws's and a 20% defense penalty. Take Shield and Sword oath off the GCD.
4.Spirits Within: add a passive trait that causes spirits within to do 75% of your MAX hp and absorb 50% as HP. GIVE THIS TO US!! GOD DAMN IT I WANT THIS!

[Carth]

Clemency really does need to be instant cast. The fact you can't block/parry while casting it just makes it really detrimental.

PLD as a whole just needs to be compensated for so many of it's utilities being on the GCD. If they aren't going to convert some of these to oGCDs, there needs to be potency buffs across the board. This includes but not limited to Shield Oath (Damage Dealt reduction needs to be 10%), Sword Oath, and Shield Swipe.

We'll have to see if SE is looking into PLD at the TGS. I think the reception here will be the final deciding factor for me. I haven't even got past A1S yet and I already feel the heavy disadvantages PLD has.

[Hioki]

I was just spitballing some ideas on the forums to adjust or buff pld. Here are a few changes I would like to have in addition to others that might have been mentioned before:

-An application of a stacking debuff from pld while in shield oath increase physical damage taken by an enemy by 1.5%, stacks 3 times last 10 seconds and is applied on auto attacks. Can be named Censure or something so it doesn't upset the lore. (Dark Knight could have something equal but on the magic side.)

-Utlimately all tanks should have access to the -10% damage taken debuff from warrior. I believe this was a giant oversight to give this to just one job. Replace the debuff from rage of halone with the debuff and pass the str debuff to Royal authority.(This is a war/drk buff in a sense, because they wouldn't have to be responsible for it.)

-Replace Clemency with Inspirit(already in game) - Instant - Self Haste lasts 20 seconds

-Increase the support of Divine Veil by letting it spread your current buffs and remaining time to your team members at half potency. Works for Fight or Flight, Rampart, Inspirit, and Tempered Will. (A party side Bane), Increase CD to 4 Minutes. (2-3 times per most endgame encounters.)

- As someone said above increase the power of Shelltron a bit by letting it block both magical and physical attacks. I would let it last 3 seconds and still maintain the 30 second cd however since the uses I want it for are to block the NEXT attack. 3 seconds is usually enough to prevent a waste on an auto-attack

Does it step on the toes of other jobs? Of course. Is it too much? Not really, I truly think this would bring a different style of tanking compared to the others. I would like to solidify our roll as the party support tank instead of just a physical damage reduction tank. TBH just buffing pld dps would be the easy route but giving us long term viability would go further.

[Carth]

-Utlimately all tanks should have access to the -10% damage taken debuff from warrior. I believe this was a giant oversight to give this to just one job. Replace the debuff from rage of halone with the debuff and pass the str debuff to Royal authority.(This is a war/drk buff in a sense, because they wouldn't have to be responsible for it.)

While true that all tanks should have access to the storm's path debuff, it's actually only PLD that doesn't have this at all. DRK has this in the form of Reprisal, which requires a parry but is there nonetheless.

I would like to solidify our roll as the party support tank instead of just a physical damage reduction tank. TBH just buffing pld dps would be the easy route but giving us long term viability would go further.

In order for this to happen, PLD needs more than just cooldowns. PLD's only real support abilities are Cover, Clemency, Stoneskin and Divine Veil. DV and Cover are okay but Clemency just needs to go back to the drawing board. Stoneskin shares the same issues as Clemency.

Inspirit is a bad idea so long as PLD's TP issues exist. With the Blood Weapon buff, PLD now stands as having the worst TP management in the game. Even if Shield Swipe was worth using it'd make it's low TP cost worthless if it's being used faster than your TP can regen.

My only problem with DV is the long recast. PLD has enough long recast cooldowns. DV as it stands is crap at 150s, and HG is the longest recast in the game. Inspirit is the only reason that 4 minute cooldown is justified, in which case I would consider it another point against the spell. Your version of DV would have a lot more use with just the halved Fight or Flight (which is the only buff everyone would care for most of the time) but at a 180s CD, insuring that you can only have AoE Fight or Flight once every 3 minutes. I also don't see a reason why Conval/Awareness/Sentinel shouldn't be added to that list.

With Censure I'm not even sure if AoE Fight or Flight is even needed as a practically permanent 4.5% debuff on the mob is very powerful and could fix raid dps issues by itself. The only problem is it more or less regulates Sword Oath to solo only, which is something I would dislike but ultimately get over.

[Hioki]

While true that all tanks should have access to the storm's path debuff, it's actually only PLD that doesn't have this at all. DRK has this in the form of Reprisal, which requires a parry but is there nonetheless.

Ah, I forgot about it. >.> TBH I was thinking more along the lines of it should always be an available debuff than proc based.

Inspirit is a bad idea so long as PLD's TP issues exist. With the Blood Weapon buff, PLD now stands as having the worst TP management in the game. Even if Shield Swipe was worth using it'd make it's low TP cost worthless if it's being used faster than your TP can regen.

That's a fair point. Maybe sword oath could receive an increased tp regeneration? There are quite a few things that can be done with Inspirit. Haste was the main thing that I remember of the ability when Imperials use it. I think adding passive traits could make it a fairly hefty ability.

My only problem with DV is the long recast. PLD has enough long recast cooldowns. DV as it stands is crap at 150s, and HG is the longest recast in the game. Inspirit is the only reason that 4 minute cooldown is justified, in which case I would consider it another point against the spell. Your version of DV would have a lot more use with just the halved Fight or Flight (which is the only buff everyone would care for most of the time) but at a 180s CD, insuring that you can only have AoE Fight or Flight once every 3 minutes. I also don't see a reason why Conval/Awareness/Sentinel shouldn't be added to that list.

That's fair, the main reason I increased the cd is because historically something that acts like a bloodlust is usually a 1-2x a fight kind of thing. I didn't want to start pushing our buffing time to AST consistency, but when we pop a buff it will be noticeable and wanted.

I didn't actually include those abilities for a reason. Conval would start creeping on Mantra. MNK already has few raid utilities, I didn't actually want to take it away. Awareness I wouldn't see particularly useful as your team isn't usually getting crit in any significant way. AOE Sentinel starts to get on LB levels which I don't find appropriate at this early in the game's level range. Maybe when we get around 70-80.

With Censure I'm not even sure if AoE Fight or Flight is even needed as a practically permanent 4.5% debuff on the mob is very powerful and could fix raid dps issues by itself. The only problem is it more or less regulates Sword Oath to solo only, which is something I would dislike but ultimately get over.

The main idea for Censure is to provide something other classes don't have, correct the raid dps issue, cover time between raid buffs, and create choices between tanks. The percentage was a straight spitball number, it could honestly be less. I'm not great at math nor could tell you what the exact impact it would have. I felt it was more important to start catering the idea towards SE's vision of the class. Adding 4.5% for only physical damage felt like a good number, with drk able to do the same 4.5% for only magical damage. Is your setup catered more towards melees(take a pld) or mages(take a drk), maybe both(take a pld/drk setup)?

It's also something that pld has to be in a tank stance to provide. I went with a short duration to prevent oath swapping abuse but low stacks so it can quickly ramp up and be consistent.

I don't mind having low damage but I need to have something that others cannot bring to the table and I want to avoid having all tanks homogenized under a single umbrella.