Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Dr. Pavel]

Maining Paladin in Heavensward more like

[vagus]

Oh man. Seems I picked the right class to level to 60. Fuck the haters.

[Taint]

Does this all make sense??? I've looked over it a few times and it looks right to me.



https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ple_pld_guide/

Some notes: 2.24/2.16 are the delays on i200+ PLD swords (2.16 is Gordian Blade) I used 2.35 as my GCD, the higher the GCD the more potent SwO is.

I was looking to compare how and when to drop shield oath and finish a combo in no oath (NoO) and when its best to just swap to SwO and how long to stay in SwO to make it worth losing 2 GCDs. It is a very complex equation but we can conclude a few things pretty fast and safely.
A) Finishing a combo by dropping ShO is only a gain if you plan on going into SwO right after that combo is done and should only be to finish Goring or Royal.
B) SwO is worth putting up for a single combo IF: the combo is Goring + any 2 oGCD moves, IF: the combo is Royal + Spirits and CoS or all 3 oGCDs.
C) You should pretty much never sit in NoO beyond 2 finishing moves on a combo. If you are able to do a full combo+ out of ShO just go into SwO, odds are it will be a gain.
D) Combos safely out of ShO should always be in SwO.

[BaneTheBrawler]

The Real Guide To Paladin:


Level Warrior.

[Taint]

The Real Guide To Paladin:


Level Warrior.

The more I play WAR the less fun it is. The job is extremely strong but beyond learning a fight rotation its pretty bland as well. (besides flashy numbers)

The people that mastered DRK are the true heros in the tank battles.

[Edelweiss]

It doesn't matter if it's fun. All that matters is that it's effective and not terrible to play.

Unfortunately PLD is still dead and will probably require 4.0 to really get the overhaul it needs (the incremental band-aids aren't going to cut it and that's all it is going to get until such time). 3.2's primary stat shit shift (presumably VIT) won't really do much to fix anything as the problems lay with the puzzling persistence of the worst Enmity modifiers and potency for Halone, as well as the other myriad of previously identified huge flaws.

[Taint]

It doesn't matter if it's fun. All that matters is that it's effective and not terrible to play.

Unfortunately PLD is still dead and will probably require 4.0 to really get the overhaul it needs (the incremental band-aids aren't going to cut it and that's all it is going to get until such time). 3.2's primary stat shit shift (presumably VIT) won't really do much to fix anything as the problems lay with the puzzling persistence of the worst Enmity modifiers and potency for Halone, as well as the other myriad of previously identified huge flaws.

Oh I wasn't defending PLD at all. PLD is a shit show outside of Thordan, but that's only because you don't need shield oath outside of enmity concerns.

WAR is hands down the best tank from every angle. DRK is just more engaging.

[Raldo]

Does this all make sense??? I've looked over it a few times and it looks right to me.

There are so few labels on your data, I can't make sense of some of it. Next to "SwO Bonus", there's the two sword delays and then... some other numbers that I have no idea what they mean. I'm trying to figure out why you're getting different DPS numbers for different delays of sword. Unless you're using different iLv swords, the auto-attack DPS should be almost identical between weapons with two different auto-attack delays, which should make weapon delay irrelevant.

[Taint]

There are so few labels on your data, I can't make sense of some of it. Next to "SwO Bonus", there's the two sword delays and then... some other numbers that I have no idea what they mean. I'm trying to figure out why you're getting different DPS numbers for different delays of sword. Unless you're using different iLv swords, the auto-attack DPS should be almost identical between weapons with two different auto-attack delays, which should make weapon delay irrelevant.

I can clean up the lables some, I just slung it together because of all the bad information on Reddit. People were saying it took 4 full combos to make up potency loss of swapping oaths.

SwO damage is reliant on the delay of the sword. Its always +50 potency but Hauteclair being 2.24 delay is 1339.28 potency per minute. Gordian blade is 2.16 delay or 1388.89 potency per minute.

[Raldo]

SwO damage is reliant on the delay of the sword. Its always +50 potency but Hauteclair being 2.24 delay is 1339.28 potency per minute. Gordian blade is 2.16 delay or 1388.89 potency per minute.

That's... not quite how it works. I'll edit this shortly.

Edit:
Auto-attacks are calculated based off of the auto-attack damage value rather than the regular damage value, so you can't just compare their potencies in a 1:1 fashion. While you are technically not wrong that the lower delay has a higher potency over time, it does less damage per hit. Once you take the auto-attack damage into account, every sword of the same iLv does the same amount of damage (give or take a bit, due to rounding error).

Hauteclaire
DMG: 76
AA DMG: 56.7
Delay: 2.24
No-Oath AA DPS: (56.7 / 2.24) = 25.3125

Gordian Blade
DMG: 76
AA DMG: 54.7
Delay: 2.16
No-Oath AA DPS: (54.7 / 2.16) = 25.3241

In order to make a direct 1:1 comparison between auto-attack damage vs weaponskill potency, you'd have to do more math which is more effort than I care to put into this. I just wanted to make sure you were taking into account the "Auto-attack damage" number on weapons.

[solracht]

did you miss the part where he said "Sword Oath damage"?

[Raldo]

did you miss the part where he said "Sword Oath damage"?

Did you miss the part where he said "Sword Oath damage" and then proceeded to talk about potency rather than damage? The point I'm trying to make is that 100 AA potency of a 2.24 delay sword cannot be compared to 100 AA potency of a 2.16 delay sword without first doing some unit conversion. That's like comparing 10 inches and 12 centimeters and coming to the conclusion that 12 centimeters is larger because the number is bigger.

[Taint]

Did you miss the part where he said "Sword Oath damage" and then proceeded to talk about potency rather than damage? The point I'm trying to make is that 100 AA potency of a 2.24 delay sword cannot be compared to 100 AA potency of a 2.16 delay sword without first doing some unit conversion. That's like comparing 10 inches and 12 centimeters and coming to the conclusion that 12 centimeters is larger because the number is bigger.

I think you are skipping the flat 50 potency addition from sword oath. Or my understanding of sword oath has been wrong for 3 years.

[Raldo]

I was ignoring oaths completely, just to explain the concept.

I'll do the math that I said I wasn't going to do and make another post that will hopefully explain how auto-attack works...

[Taint]

I was ignoring oaths completely, just to explain the concept.

I'll do the math that I said I wasn't going to do and make another post that will hopefully explain how auto-attack works...

I understand AAs. I didn't put them in my calculations since just like you said they almost identical overtime with same ilvl weapons.

I did put SwOs 50 potency in the equations since they math explains the cost of swapping oaths and the gain from doing so. (SwO vs ShO vs NoO)

It actually gets pretty complex on PLD. Like do you drop ShO before doing Goring and then put up SwO after Goring. Fast ShO, Riot ShO, cancel ShO, Goring NoO, Put up SwO, continue. The question is whats is the break even point of wasting a GCD on SwO vs just dropping ShO?

[Raldo]

I did put SwOs 50 potency in the equations since they math explains the cost of swapping oaths and the gain from doing so. (SwO vs ShO vs NoO)

My problem with this is that, unless I am misinterpreting you, you're acting like 50 Sword Oath's additional auto-attack potency is the same as 1/3 of a Fast Blade (150pot attack). They are not the same thing. (They're not the same thing, right? I'm not crazy here? It's been over a year since I've looked at the numbers, and this discussion is making me question myself.) If you look at the damage, your additional sword oath hit is worth half of your auto-attack hit. That is not the same amount of damage as 1/3 of a Fast Blade.

Excluding all the aforementioned math, sword oath bonus damage should be worth an additional 100 weaponskill-potency every 6 seconds, or ~16.666 potency-per-second.

[solracht]

Look at the numbers again. Sword Oath's additional potency is indeed roughly 1/3 of a Fast Blade (damage variance aside).

[Raldo]

Welp, that's a thing I can't do right now, which is unfortunate. If that is indeed the case, than my previously-held assumptions of how Sword Oath works is wrong. I could've sworn that Sword Oath's extra hits were exactly half of an auto-attack, but it's been over a year since I looked... Carry on then, ignore what I said.

[Taint]

My problem with this is that, unless I am misinterpreting you, you're acting like 50 Sword Oath's additional auto-attack potency is the same as 1/3 of a Fast Blade (150pot attack). They are not the same thing. If you look at the damage, your additional sword oath hit is worth half of your auto-attack hit. That is not the same amount of damage as 1/3 of a Fast Blade.

Excluding all the aforementioned math, sword oath bonus damage should be worth an additional 100 weaponskill-potency every 6 seconds, or ~16.666 potency-per-second.

I did treat it like 1/3 of a Fast Blade. Looking at FFlogs that seems to be correct. Sword oaths averages are always a third of Fast blades.

[Obsidian]

In regards to tanks, we’ll be looking at each of the three jobs’ defense traits and making overall adjustments to their values. Amongst the adjustments, paladin will be receiving large adjustments. Not only in terms of their offensive-aspects, but overall adjustments as well.

Cross your fingers, I guess?