Paladin 3.0 - Now with +1 Button

[Carth]

If they follow conventional wisdom I agree, but I believe it's very possible for PLD to be a part of an ideal group without forcing their damage to be higher than the other tanks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but WHM deals more personal dps than AST does, but AST is more ideal because they increase overall raid dps. I believe a similar argument is used for MNK vs DRG. So basically if PLD's utility was retooled instead of their damage, it's possible for them to be really strong tanks that doesn't rely on excessive damage.

[Shenrien]

If they have a slider, and on one side it says Mitigation and the other says Damage and they want PLD to be focused more on mitigation then it should have the tools that make to so tanky that it has no problem dealing with mechanics, DRK would fall in the middle and warrior would fall on the damage side of scale. Sadly they cannot get PLD right at all and not allowing shield blocking for magic is severely hurting the class.

[Seravi Edalborez]

If their insistence is on PLD's personal DPS being always worse, they could always make it some kind of rallying tank that gives a minor offensive boost to the party, via debuff on a mob or passive buff on the party. I don't know how large that bonus would have to be to make it worthwhile without being broken though.

[Shenrien]

Have fight or flight act as a party wide damage increase would help bring in some popularity for it.

[Dathus]

The party-wide buff would be great, if it's anything over 5%, you're going to run into a "Need PLD 100% for bonus", especially if it's recast is lower than 2 minutes. The ONLY way it could go over 5% would be if the radius was 10y, or else you get into, again, the whole "ZOMG NEEDZ FOR MUH E-PEENORZ", like how AST has sort-of become.

[Lucavi]

I still feel that many jobs have the ability to step on the toes of other jobs (positively), having Pld act as more of a maintenance tank that A) doesn't die and B) keeps others from actually dying could have significant value. If the core of a fight is about pushing numbers and phases while eliminating deaths, Pld can still acheive that even if their DPS isn't that high, if they are actively working to allow others to pump out more damage than another tank realistically could.

Yes, you can do that by giving pld some kind of stupid %damage buffs to others, but that doesn't really sound like a pld. Another way is to free up the ability for others to focus more on damage and less on healing. Pld acting as a front-line sponge and healer could work in that regard, especially for Whm, who can do some pretty nice damage if left to their own devices.

Whm was a huge part of speed runs, and a tank that can group shit up, group ALLIES up, and either negate massive amounts of AOE damage to people or recover said damage through high AOE hots wouldn't need to be doing the actual damage themselves. All that matters is that the same level of damage is coming out from the party regardless of who is taking hits. I'd like to see plds either A) transfer health lost through hits to party members on a flat % (with a capable strong self-heal), or have active abilities that can rapidly restore either their own health and/or the health of their teammates. With the pld able to better care for themselves and their allies, it leaves the allies increasingly free to beat the shit out of the enemy.

The struggles with a plan like this would be two-fold from what I see:

1) You have to balance the amount of healing to a realistic level where the difference in time/freedom to the healers or DPS would equal the DPS that Pld loses to War/Drk in through both raw damage and existing abilities (mitigation, cheese mechanics, debuffs).

2) You have to balance the amount of healing to a realistic level where players cannot simply choose Pld as the "ignore mechanics" tank. Though, if the Plds themselves became more of that through more abilities that outright resisted stuns/knockback/general CC it wouldn't be as much of an issue since the damage of the fight itself isn't coming from the Pld. The Pld ignoring mechanics through immunities not only already exists in-game currently (albeit through small windows of time), at the current make-up of boss designs, it wouldn't break the game since Pld can't really do much to assist others anyway.

I don't want Pld being a reskinned Drk/War, but I also don't want Dark/War nerfed beacuse they still do have their own identities right now, even if they need tweaks. Pld needs to stand on its own. Giving it an aggressive tank/healer role would not only provide value, but could change how players choose to attempt entire fights, adding additional depth and complexity that many are begging for now. It would also re-introduce Plds to speedrunning, as they could essentially babysit the group in certain scenerios (when everyone is clumped close in tight formation, instead of spread wide, doing their own thing).

In short, turn Pld from a generic Sword/shield guy and more into a mobile field General/Triage Center and you'll restore Pld's role in the game. We already have a Meat Tank Berserker and a spike Damage Edgelord hogging the glory. Give the third tank a different role.

[Obsidian]

If they really want PLD to be the brick wall, they need to make it so tanky it could potentially sustain itself for most of a raid tier and let the healer contribute to raid DPS to compensate. They would need to seriously un-fuck Clemency and many other abilities to allow PLD to actually heal itself and they would also need to significantly improve its MP recovery options so that they don't create ANOTHER reason to bring BRD/MCH.

The problem with it now is that instead of a brick wall, all PLD is is a pile of bricks.

[Dathus]

If they really want PLD to be the brick wall, they need to make it so tanky it could potentially sustain itself for most of a raid tier and let the healer contribute to raid DPS to compensate. They would need to seriously un-fuck Clemency and many other abilities to allow PLD to actually heal itself and they would also need to significantly improve its MP recovery options so that they don't create ANOTHER reason to bring BRD/MCH.

The problem with it now is that instead of a brick wall, all PLD is is a pile of bricks.

Clemency potency scales with VIT+STR+Weapon Damage
Cast time uninterruptible
Sheltron now recovers 75% of MP, and can block magic tankbusters (trait@70); CD extended by 30 secs
Riot Blade recovers 30% MP
Goring Blade ability potency lowered by half, DoT unchanged, MP+20% recovery added.

[Taint]

All the mushed ideas in this thread is probably how the PLD meetings at SE are going. Lol

The job just needs to be blown up and rebuilt from ground level.

[Lucavi]

Honestly I feel the opposite, Taint. I feel the pld meetings at SE are going something along the lines of:

"Reduce the cooldown of X ability by 1 second. We'll roll out those changes and give the players 6 months to adjust to them."

I can't see Japan doing anything more than taking baby steps. Then again, Nintendo FINALLY took a huge leap forward with the new Zelda, so I'll give the rest of Japan a few years to once again be dragged, kicking and screaming all the way, into the modern era.

[Silenka]

Ah, you can't compare Nintendo to the rest of Japan. Nintendo has always been an innovator.

[Lucavi]

That's why I try not to. The rest of Japan are akin to cromagnum man, only moving forward then they must.

[Classikmage]

Is there a way to keep the glamour for Aettir after I upgrade to Aettir Lux? I kind of like the 270 look better than the 275 for PLD.

[Taint]

Is there a way to keep the glamour for Aettir after I upgrade to Aettir Lux? I kind of like the 270 look better than the 275 for PLD.

I didn't check for i270 but it should be sold right next to the Anima NPCs.

[Classikmage]

Started messing around with WAR relic since I finished my PLD. First time playing WAR in over a year. I don't know why people say this job is superior to PLD in every way, it does have a few cool aspects, but it has some freaking annoying quirks too... for one, Overpower is horrible.... conal versus AoE.... it uses TP instead of MP... I've never run out of TP on PLD, and I use my rotations non stop. If you don't get the Overpower positioning exactly perfect at the start of each pull you're fucked on TP.

Second... hate on PLD is so much easier to hold... trash mobs I can pull as much as I want use about 3 Flashes(and Circle of Scorn) and I can hold hate on anything with just a Goring Blade rotation.... or Royal Authority if the mobs HP is too low for Goring Blade... I don't know how people can say how people can say WAR holds better hate than PLD. Not saying WAR is bad at holding hate. But you definitely need a bit more strategy when gathering multiple mobs. Also, Flash is easily stronger than Overpower as far as hate generation. Usually when grabbing the first pack of a large pull, I can throw down a CoS and a Flash and impatient DPS can toss hits on them while we are running and never pull it off me before I get to the nextr batch of mobs... I throw down 2 Overpowers and they end up pulling under trhe same situation. I need to grab the 1st stack with 3 Overpowers?

So let's see, Overpower is weaker than Flash, and conal... and limited by TP... Flash is stonger than Overpower, AoE, and MP is virtually limitless on PLD..... Gee, I wonder which is better for holding hate on multiple mobs...

Mitigation, I'll admit Veangeance is awesome. And it's nice having a full time Convalescence on big pulls when in Defiance.

Dungeons don't even really go that much faster, bosses are actually slower in the 50 dungeons because I don't have access to Deliverance. trash probably goes slower because it's a little harder to get everything stable, (I probably just need more practice when that). Hopefully it gets better when I get to 60 content on my relic quests. But I doubt much will change except the addition of Deliverance.
Which will most likely help on bosses, but trash will probably be not much different as far as kill speed.

[octopus]

It actually just sounds to me that you're just not used to WAR yet. TP is never an issue with WAR because of equilibrium. Overpower actually does damage. Unchained is the best at holding hate. Berserk + bloodbath AOE spam means your healer doesn't really have to heal. I can't imagine why you think kill speed is not much different with trash lol...

[Taint]

Like Octopus said you just need to play WAR more.

WAR and DRK both shit on PLD in Dungeons. Like not even in the same league.

If you prefer magic over TP, then DRK is your job. I literally sprint between pulls. PLD is shit tier for most everything but especially dungeons and trash packs.

[Lucavi]

You absolutely need more War. War is extremely balanced, having just about everything within its own kit and needing little else from others. It has multiple self-heals, tp-restoration, defense buffs, offensive buffs; its nuts, actually.

[Carth]

Some of that stuff is also mathematically wrong. Overpower is automatically better because it benefits from damage (PLD does not). WAR also holds 3+ packs through Vengeance and Equilibrium (and Second Wind if you really want to). WAR also wants to use Overpower all the time during pulls, unlike PLD. PLD's Flash does have the benefit of being MP-based, but that's the only benefit worth counting. We also can't forget that, if you truly prefer Flash over Overpower, that you can CC it.

[Obsidian]

I have no idea how anyone in their right mind could think Flash is better than Overpower.