Astrologian Discussion Thread: (Insert Yu-Gi-Oh! joke here)

[BadKarma]

Astrologian is complete shit until 60.

After that it really picks up a bit

[Woozer]

We ended up clearing and I got my treasures for zodiac. I agree, I have no problem at 60 with dungeons on AST but I do feel a little wanting at 50. It really annoys me how half-brained SE sets up their skill distribution through levels. Like for example: PLD not getting their tanking stance until 40.

I want Gravity and Malefic II. I also feel like sometimes I struggle more when tanks try to do a full speed run and pull half the damn dungeon in one go. It takes a lot more for me to not get everyone killed on AST than it would for my WHM. I really do hope that SE seriously addresses some of the issues in 3.1. But for the most part, I've been enjoying the job and I don't see why AST should be excluded from content (outside of alex savage, I haven't tried that at all.) It's my only 60 so far, so I end up using it for most things.

[Damane]

We ended up clearing and I got my treasures for zodiac. I agree, I have no problem at 60 with dungeons on AST but I do feel a little wanting at 50. It really annoys me how half-brained SE sets up their skill distribution through levels. Like for example: PLD not getting their tanking stance until 40.

I want Gravity and Malefic II. I also feel like sometimes I struggle more when tanks try to do a full speed run and pull half the damn dungeon in one go. It takes a lot more for me to not get everyone killed on AST than it would for my WHM. I really do hope that SE seriously addresses some of the issues in 3.1. But for the most part, I've been enjoying the job and I don't see why AST should be excluded from content (outside of alex savage, I haven't tried that at all.) It's my only 60 so far, so I end up using it for most things.

oh i think AST can do all the content np. On hard fights like Savage stuff it just really really depends how well your group plays overall (and your healing partner) and its setup.

[Silenka]

It really annoys me how half-brained SE sets up their skill distribution through levels...I also feel like sometimes I struggle more when tanks try to do a full speed run and pull half the damn dungeon in one go. It takes a lot more for me to not get everyone killed on AST than it would for my WHM.

I believe this is partially a product of SE's obvious tilt in 3.0 towards smaller pulls. They nerfed flare, holy and other obvious AoE-burn abilities but people are pretty set in their ways as far as large pulls of dungeon trash. I can only assume that they considered this when they designed AST and purposefully decided to do up the skills this way. Yes, it's quite a bit weaker and slower than the other 2 healers as far as emergency/quick heal options. I do think it's largely because AST is new and experimental and SE was perhaps trying to push the smaller pulls agenda - the other classes have had since ARR launch to get balanced to the correct level and their new abilities just made them even stronger mixed with their old abilities. AST has a ways to go in the balance department.

As for skill distribution, again this seems to be SE's new "healer shouldn't DPS in content" tilt as we can infer from the absence of accuracy on all 3.0 healer gear. AST's dps skills are even presented by the questline NPC as afterthoughts, with jibes like "oh yeah this probably would have been really useful sooner, huh?". It's clear they wanted to get to the "meat" of the job (the cards and associated skills) first and present dps options last.

And really AST's dps options are comparatively not good. Gravity lacking stun really hurts, WHM is obviously a thousand times better in this regard. On WHM you can basically dump your mana on trash pulls and not have to worry about healing the tank at all, unlike with Gravity (and then be totally fine on MP thanks to the presence of extra MP regen options). And for SCH they can just watch a ton of dots tick while healing - there's really no comparison and so AST feels very underpowered in the trash nuke department and it's disappointing. Again I think this just requires SE to pull their heads out of their asses, recognize there's a problem, and fix the balance... or else stick to their guns and nerf the dps capabilities of the other two.

All that said, I personally have few problems healing on AST in any level dungeon, especially now that gear has caught up. I think that's partly because I'm WHM main and more practiced at healing in any situation than many who are just picking up AST as their first healer or haven't played heals as much. It tends to be very obvious when someone leveling AST in a dungeon has never played a healer before. Healing well on AST is definitely more of a challenge than the other two and it's much harder to catch up if you fall behind in healing. It just requires a lot more attention to play than other healers, but I usually like that about it, it's a challenge to play well. When I start not liking it is when my focus is waning or when I realize that logically I could just play WHM in the same content and have it be so much easier, safer and better dps =/

[Damane]

I believe this is partially a product of SE's obvious tilt in 3.0 towards smaller pulls. They nerfed flare, holy and other obvious AoE-burn abilities but people are pretty set in their ways as far as large pulls of dungeon trash. I can only assume that they considered this when they designed AST and purposefully decided to do up the skills this way. Yes, it's quite a bit weaker and slower than the other 2 healers as far as emergency/quick heal options. I do think it's largely because AST is new and experimental and SE was perhaps trying to push the smaller pulls agenda - the other classes have had since ARR launch to get balanced to the correct level and their new abilities just made them even stronger mixed with their old abilities. AST has a ways to go in the balance department.

As for skill distribution, again this seems to be SE's new "healer shouldn't DPS in content" tilt as we can infer from the absence of accuracy on all 3.0 healer gear. AST's dps skills are even presented by the questline NPC as afterthoughts, with jibes like "oh yeah this probably would have been really useful sooner, huh?". It's clear they wanted to get to the "meat" of the job (the cards and associated skills) first and present dps options last.

And really AST's dps options are comparatively not good. Gravity lacking stun really hurts, WHM is obviously a thousand times better in this regard. On WHM you can basically dump your mana on trash pulls and not have to worry about healing the tank at all, unlike with Gravity (and then be totally fine on MP thanks to the presence of extra MP regen options). And for SCH they can just watch a ton of dots tick while healing - there's really no comparison and so AST feels very underpowered in the trash nuke department and it's disappointing. Again I think this just requires SE to pull their heads out of their asses, recognize there's a problem, and fix the balance... or else stick to their guns and nerf the dps capabilities of the other two.

All that said, I personally have few problems healing on AST in any level dungeon, especially now that gear has caught up. I think that's partly because I'm WHM main and more practiced at healing in any situation than many who are just picking up AST as their first healer or haven't played heals as much. It tends to be very obvious when someone leveling AST in a dungeon has never played a healer before. Healing well on AST is definitely more of a challenge than the other two and it's much harder to catch up if you fall behind in healing. It just requires a lot more attention to play than other healers, but I usually like that about it, it's a challenge to play well. When I start not liking it is when my focus is waning or when I realize that logically I could just play WHM in the same content and have it be so much easier, safer and better dps =/

another oversight of SE is that in really really tight situations you either have no time to use the cards or totally forget about the cards because you try keep up with healing because shit hit the fan or your healing partner slacked. so yeah :/. Its much easier to provide direct DPS (you know the target) then reacting to a random buff that you give to a person you need to decide on the fly, which costs reaction time that can be strict in very hard fights.
again not saying AST is bad and unable to do hard top content, just that the other 2 healers have an advantage when it comes to savage type stuff.
in all honest i think the easiest fix would be to enhance the buff duration of cards (by alot) and to lower the lvl of gravity to 50 for lvl 50 dungeons.

[Kari]

For Savage progression, should I buy a Weapon or Body with Esoterics?
Someone is trying to convince me body might be better and I could start buying up other pieces sooner.

Still not sure between AST or SCH either. I love AST but I can't help but feel I will bring the group down a bit before more buffs come. Mostly MP issues are a concern because I nuke a lot, even without using Mal2 it felt pretty gross previously.

[Kiarax]

Weapon is always the answer. I guess a case could be made for something like a body + accessory if your static was handing you a gobcoat and a gobtwine this week to upgrade them both immediately, but even then I'm pretty sure weapon is still better, regardless of class. The only justification I see to ever not get a weapon is if you're super confident your group is going to clear A4 very soon (without you picking up the weapon) and your savage weapon is the BIS, even then I'd still get it just because some wasted eso is better than feeling like you're holding back your group at all (and we use an AST too so I know you probably feel like that already, lol).

[BadKarma]

The only class that should consider getting eso body over weapon is summoner currently.

[Kipling]

The only class that should consider getting eso body over weapon is summoner currently.

...Why?

[Aiurily]

for me i'd have to downgrade too many pieces for acc to use an eso wep as a mch, so there's that, too.

[Niiro]

for me i'd have to downgrade too many pieces for acc to use an eso wep as a mch, so there's that, too.

Spoiler: show

As of 3.0, weapons no longer have ACC on them.

[Aiurily]

im not sure why i actually posted in this thread. im so lost; i thought i was posting in another thread

kill me

[Jahaudant]

Doesn't explain why you would need to downgrade pieces for accuracy when swapping from a weapon with 0 accuracy to a better weapon also with 0 accuracy.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Maybe he's using an Adamantite Culverin with acc melds, bro. Don't judge.

[Aiurily]

Doesn't explain why you would need to downgrade pieces for accuracy when swapping from a weapon with 0 accuracy to a better weapon also with 0 accuracy.

because opportunity cost of buying the weapon? buying something else with eso that gives accuracy is the implied meaning here; it's pretty obvious that the weps don't have acc on them lol

my option was either the weapon+various downgrades to meet 631 acc req for A3S frontal, (like my i210 gloves to i190, and i190 neck/bracelet to i180) for 2 wd, 638 total acc and +66 crit, or chest+accessory for 19 dex, +96 det and +10 sksp @ 633 acc. yes i value 19 dex, 96 det and 10 sksp more than 2 wep dmg and 66 crit, though the differences are minor in the end

anyway this is somehow going really off topic

Maybe he's using an Adamantite Culverin with acc melds, bro. Don't judge.

dank memes tho m8

[BadKarma]

...Why?

Stats on smn book are trash, whereas their eso body is such a large upgrade over the 190 in terms of raw stats it trumps the weapon damage.

[Niiro]

Considering the only stat weights I've seen so far are preliminary DRG ones, I find such a statement made with any certainty dubious at best.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Stats on smn book are trash, whereas their eso body is such a large upgrade over the 190 in terms of raw stats it trumps the weapon damage.

Unless it's PIE main, parry secondary, I highly doubt that.

[Niiro]

It's Crit major SS minor.

But apparently because the minor stat is less preferable the whole thing becomes trash.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Okay, I built the sets.

2 WD, 2 INT, 64 ss VS. 77 crit, 61 det.

So under level 50 stat weights, sure, the latter is better. But due to the lack of accurate new weights, you have to do a bit of guessing.

Assuming SS is worth 2/3 of crit per point, and crit is worth similar/slightly less than det point-for-point, we get to 95 det vs 2 WD 2 INT.

Going off of old 1 WD ~ 6 INT, that's 14 INT vs 95 det.

So we end up with saying that unless det > 0.1473, the book is better. And that's with always rounding off in det's favor.