Astrologian Discussion Thread: (Insert Yu-Gi-Oh! joke here)

[Arthars]

facerolling content? bring ast sure

progression? whm still is better in every department

right now the biggest issue in the AST community is everyone thinks they are fucking beast now because of a few fixes

sure, they become closer and prolly can replace a whm in certain situation, like faceroll content as mentioned, or when MP isnt an issue in the fight you are in

regen from whm and free cure II is just hands down too good

come back to your senses (again) pls

overall tho, good update, good buffs, but seriously too much attention spent on a broken toy

PLD woulda use some help not sure why SE didnt fix them at all

[DeadlyWaltz]

I believe Astrologian got the buff it needed. Sure Synastry is strong, but it's single target only. It would be different if it was party based. I've been healing since 2.0 Beta and it's nice to see something different than being locked into either White Mage or Scholar. People tend to forget that Astrologian is a niche healer. The way it was intended was to pretty much support the other healer with the opposite stance and fill in for your static Healer if they don't show up, they're the in-between Healer that can do both the Scholar and White Mage role, albeit a little less effective than their carbon copies but still they can hold their own now. The buffs were much needed, I don't understand why people are now complaining about Synasty, when before 3.07 people wouldn't even look at Astrologian. People are now putting the class on a pedestal and are now waiting in the wings to tear it down back to how it was originally. Make up your minds, as a fellow Healer I love Astrologian for the following reasons and I dislike the other healer classes for their own reasons.

1. I hated DPSing all the time on my Scholar. Why is it when I signed on as a "HEALER" class I am doing the job a DPS is supposed to be doing? If they can't do their job and need me to DPS as well, then there is a major problem. I don't care if there are DPS checks, those are meant for "DPS". You don't see DPS helping us with Heal Checks do you outside of just Mantra and Convalescence.

2. Fairy AI was wonky and you were forced to micromanage your Fairy and then keep an eye on 7 other people to make sure they're not being hurt/killed on top of having to DPS. I just hated Scholar's Fairy. Sure in 3.0 they fixed them, but still it's annoying having to blow a swiftcast on a Fairy to bring it back so your HPS doesn't take a serious nosedive.

3. Didn't like White Mage due to serious mana issues and the class was simply boring.

4. Getting into the reasons I love AST now, I enjoy it because of the Cards. Sure they're RNG based, but you don't see a Scholar or a White Mage pulling out a 3k/tic Regen now do you for over 30 seconds and this was just at i177. Astrologian has the lowest of DPS in terms of healing factorso people don't want you to waste your time DPSing when it's so low it's not going to make any difference! (Incredibly lazy/shallow, I know.)

5. The fact that people hated AST when it first came out and now are trying to bandwagon it and call it overpowered is simply laughable. If I do recall Warrior was in a near unplayable state in 2.0 during 1st Coil. Caduceus's Hood Swipe ripped WARs apart. The same could be said right now for AST, as they couldn't hold up in raids. But when Warrior got buffed, they then became the literal King of DPS Tanking. I am hoping Astrologian becomes the king of raid utility. I mean we can't DPS. But our cards make up for it in the long run.

[Silenka]

1. I hated DPSing all the time on my Scholar. Why is it when I signed on as a "HEALER" class I am doing the job a DPS is supposed to be doing? If they can't do their job and need me to DPS as well, then there is a major problem. I don't care if there are DPS checks, those are meant for "DPS". You don't see DPS helping us with Heal Checks do you outside of just Mantra and Convalescence.

This is gonna be good.
*popcorn*

[Carth]

1. I hated DPSing all the time on my Scholar. Why is it when I signed on as a "HEALER" class I am doing the job a DPS is supposed to be doing? If they can't do their job and need me to DPS as well, then there is a major problem. I don't care if there are DPS checks, those are meant for "DPS". You don't see DPS helping us with Heal Checks do you outside of just Mantra and Convalescence.

You're from OF aren't you?

[Kipling]

While the changes are nice, my gripe with AST is that it still needs a SCH partner in cutting edge progression content. Currently, SCH is the diva that cannot be replaced. WHM can be just fine with these changes.

It just... irks me. AST was pitched to us as a healer that could adapt to any situation by switching stances before the battle based on party composition. That has basically gone out the window. You could do AST WHM, but you will struggle much more if you're doing A4S etc.

[TheDirtyHobo]

You don't see DPS helping us with Heal Checks do you outside of just Mantra and Convalescence.

Obviously no DPS in the history of ever has used a defensive cooldown, second wind, bloodbath, virus, E4E, or Dragon Kick in order to ease healing, nor has a SMN ever once raised someone.

[Fiye]

Currently, SCH is the diva that cannot be replaced. WHM can be just fine with these changes.

In bleeding edge world-first content SCH won't be replaced unless there's a healing class in 4.0 that can push out as much DPS as SCH and still provide healing.

AST was pitched to us as a healer that could adapt to any situation by switching stances before the battle based on party composition. That has basically gone out the window. You could do AST WHM, but you will struggle much more if you're doing A4S etc.

It hasn't gone out the fucking window. Alexander Savage isn't the only fucking content that exists yet. Yes, I know its the content that everyone's still slamming their head against trying to clear because everything up to this point has been a fucking faceroll. The nice thing is I can join a PFer that has another healer and go 'Hmm. Well I could provide extra shielding from constant AoEs in X part, or I can support with AoE regen'. Its the nicest thing about AST because apparently there's only two types of healing still in XIV.

[Kipling]

Considering my post was discussing cutting edge progression content and how AST fits into Alexander Savage, you're right, I'm not including things like PF Leviathan EX for ponies into my discussion. Because well, at that point, who the fuck cares what you go. You could do it with your co-healer dead the entire time, so your stance doesn't matter.

I still legitimately have no idea what you're trying to communicate other than "AST is fine in content where composition means jack shit." The fact that AST still has issues in Alexander Savage is still a legitimate problem. Are you saying it's not simply because most of the playerbase doesn't raid or something?

[Fiye]

I'm avoiding talking about Alexander Savage because I haven't been in it and only refuse to because of my work schedule and I don't trust the competency of Sargantanas PFer in regards to DPS checks. Bismarck was a hell that I don't intend to repeat.

As far as talking about the toolset of AST as of 3.07, from what I've seen from patch notes and felt through my experiences with playing with the class they're finally competent. They're heals are finally on par with a WHMs. Their toolkit has some answers to WHM. They have an answer to Divine Seal finally. Lightspeed is Presence of Mind-ish. I have tools to regenerate MP that work already. Lumin, Lightspeed, and the occasional Ewer card.

On the flipside, my shields are, barely, stronger than a SCHs outside of a crit-galvanize.

On paper AST is finally fucking functional. In experts I was able to actually sit and throw more than a few gravities (And for me this is big because WHM has a fucking stun with holy). Right now we got to wait a week+ for the biased of AST suck to get the fuck out of everyone's head.

To repeat. AST can finally keep up with a WHM in terms of heals outside of their tool kit. This is the biggest fucking thing i was hoping for with 3.07 and it finally fucking happened. The buffs to my tool kit (Synnastry, Collective Unconscious, Disable, and Cards) made them useful to a point where I'd want to use them outside of specific instances.

I can pop Synnatry when I need to play catch up instead of hoping for Essential Dignity to be off C/D. Collective Unconscious can be popped and then discarded since you get a 15s regen for standing in it. Disable is finally fucking reliable and now the more important cards have a longer duration to warrant their fucking existance so I don't have to keep on hearing my friend say "SCHs provide more buffs" because their fucking fairy is guaranteed 1.5% gain over a minute while I have to fucking hope and pray I get a card buff.

You know what's shitty? When you're trying to get a Ravana Ex clear through the PFer and the only one up has a SCH hosting it and the other healing slot is locked to WHM. That I got told 'We can't have you because you'd gimp LB gain' as a fucking excuse? That I had to wait fucking 5 minutes after arguing with this guy before I got in because a WHM didn't join.

And you know what? We fucking cleared that fight because I'm not a shitty player. The class was gimped, has been gimped and finally after fucking 2 months of having a healing class I didn't even want to fucking gear up its finally in a fixed state. I finally feel like I can take this fucking class into Savage and produce some fucking results.

So if you've played AST any amount to be familiar with their capabilities prior to patch 3.07. I recommend you play it right now. I don't care if you go into Frontlines, Expert, Extreme Primal, or fucking Normal/Savage Goridas. No matter what the fuck content you play on AST you will feel those buffs.

Edit: To add, my only options to have a decent healing class prior to 3.07 was to level SCH and WHM. After the last buff to AST where Ewer and Spire got changed to Refresh/Regain and Collective Unconscious got the potency buff to 200 (I know its back down to 150) I fucking gave up on hoping that class would be in a usable state. I leveled up WHM, got tired of fucking healing through dungeons because that fucking grind to 60 is awful and I didn't feel like leveling a healing class again.

I mained SCH in 2.4, switched to WHM in 2.5. I've done all content during ARR outside of T13 (Thought I did progress a decent amount) and Savage SCOB. I don't like SCH because I have trust issues. And I'm not a fan of WHM's aesthetics. Too plain and been-there-done-that. Yes, I want to main Astrologian. Sue me.

[Jahaudant]

Putting aside your life story it does seem like you are in fact trying to say that AST is fine in content where composition doesn't mean anything.

[Elcura]

If you want to play AST it's fine now. It has answers for WHM and Noct isn't useless. AST always required more thought and planning to play than WHM or SCH. Your abilities have to be used better, they have to synergize with each other and the party for maximum effect, which usually can depend on what card you draw.

I do wonder how much stronger AST has to get before haters get over it (lolArthars), it really is a fun job to watch evolve and the salt is great. Only thing I'd want now is stance dancing, but I'm sure people won't be satisfied until it's basically WHM and SCH rolled into one.

And people want more unbalanced elements in this game.

[Pebe]

As someone who played AST every week of progression, I personally thought it was fine before, this is just icing on the cake to me. I mean like seriously, AS1-3 is such a joke to heal now. The SCH needs ballads before I do, and no that is not because he is "carrying me", its just AST's buffed regens are so strong and its hp healed/mana spent ratio is so much better. New balance/arrow durations are stupid strong as well lol. I'm excited to go into AS4 tonight to play around some more with changes.

On a side note, healer gear finally decided it wanted to drop /o/! Ilvl 203 \o\

[Snoctopus]

I believe Astrologian got the buff it needed. Sure Synastry is strong, but it's single target only. It would be different if it was party based. I've been healing since 2.0 Beta and it's nice to see something different than being locked into either White Mage or Scholar. People tend to forget that Astrologian is a niche healer. The way it was intended was to pretty much support the other healer with the opposite stance and fill in for your static Healer if they don't show up, they're the in-between Healer that can do both the Scholar and White Mage role, albeit a little less effective than their carbon copies but still they can hold their own now. The buffs were much needed, I don't understand why people are now complaining about Synasty, when before 3.07 people wouldn't even look at Astrologian. People are now putting the class on a pedestal and are now waiting in the wings to tear it down back to how it was originally. Make up your minds, as a fellow Healer I love Astrologian for the following reasons and I dislike the other healer classes for their own reasons.

1. I hated DPSing all the time on my Scholar. Why is it when I signed on as a "HEALER" class I am doing the job a DPS is supposed to be doing? If they can't do their job and need me to DPS as well, then there is a major problem. I don't care if there are DPS checks, those are meant for "DPS". You don't see DPS helping us with Heal Checks do you outside of just Mantra and Convalescence.

2. Fairy AI was wonky and you were forced to micromanage your Fairy and then keep an eye on 7 other people to make sure they're not being hurt/killed on top of having to DPS. I just hated Scholar's Fairy. Sure in 3.0 they fixed them, but still it's annoying having to blow a swiftcast on a Fairy to bring it back so your HPS doesn't take a serious nosedive.

3. Didn't like White Mage due to serious mana issues and the class was simply boring.

4. Getting into the reasons I love AST now, I enjoy it because of the Cards. Sure they're RNG based, but you don't see a Scholar or a White Mage pulling out a 3k/tic Regen now do you for over 30 seconds and this was just at i177. Astrologian has the lowest of DPS in terms of healing factorso people don't want you to waste your time DPSing when it's so low it's not going to make any difference! (Incredibly lazy/shallow, I know.)

5. The fact that people hated AST when it first came out and now are trying to bandwagon it and call it overpowered is simply laughable. If I do recall Warrior was in a near unplayable state in 2.0 during 1st Coil. Caduceus's Hood Swipe ripped WARs apart. The same could be said right now for AST, as they couldn't hold up in raids. But when Warrior got buffed, they then became the literal King of DPS Tanking. I am hoping Astrologian becomes the king of raid utility. I mean we can't DPS. But our cards make up for it in the long run.

Welcome to BG! I see that this is your first post here, so hopefully you found some useful information in this and other threads.

The primary focus of this thread has been AST as it pertains to endgame/progression content, which is how the class should be evaluated/balanced. With that in mind, I wanted to speak to some of your points.

1) As an AST, SCH, or WHM, it is your job to DPS whenever possible. Simply topping off bars when they aren't full is just doing the absolute bare minimum requirement of any healer. The current progression content 100% requires every party member to contribute as much as they possibly can to damage output (DPS), damage reduction (not getting hit by avoidable attacks), and successfully completing mechanics. Healer DPS abilities are part of our toolkits, and DPS = Utility. Not contributing to DPS as a healer is simply poor play.

3) AST's mana management is still worse than WHM's.

4) Our lower DPS output will likely still continue to hurt us in progression content, however with the changes to balance/arrow this may be offset. It'll be hard to track how much DPS was actually contributed with cards with current tools. The difference in DPS between SCH and AST is a huge part of why AST can more easily replace a WHM than a SCH. SCH brings same/similar utility with much higher personal DPS.

5) Jury is still out on whether cards actually do make up for the DPS loss in the long run.

[Pebe]

Its not always about Balance and arrow, spire and spear are also a large DPs boost if used correctly. Spire in particular allows your DPs to be more liberal with tp. Whether its your dark main tank going more ham or your monk able to get more rock breakers in during a multi-target phase. Or the fact that your bird/ much never has to play a single paeon if you play your cards right. All of these are DPs increases. So think twice before you turn spire into royal road, that is unless you have a Balance or arrow already held with spread lol

[Snoctopus]

Its not always about Balance and arrow, spire and spear are also a large DPs boost if used correctly. Spire in particular allows your DPs to be more liberal with tp. Whether its your dark main tank going more ham or your monk able to get more rock breakers in during a multi-target phase. Or the fact that your bird/ much never has to play a single paeon if you play your cards right. All of these are DPs increases. So think twice before you turn spire into royal road, that is unless you have a Balance or arrow already held with spread lol

Those TP bars are a godsend. Spire definitely is more useful when it's not just a guess.

[Fiye]

Putting aside your life story it does seem like you are in fact trying to say that AST is fine in content where composition doesn't mean anything.

Give me two competent summoners and a DPS orientated warrior. We'll see how fast an expert can be cleared rather than using two BRDs and a PLD.

As someone who played AST every week of progression, I personally thought it was fine before, this is just icing on the cake to me. I mean like seriously, AS1-3 is such a joke to heal now. The SCH needs ballads before I do, and no that is not because he is "carrying me", its just AST's buffed regens are so strong and its hp healed/mana spent ratio is so much better. New balance/arrow durations are stupid strong as well lol. I'm excited to go into AS4 tonight to play around some more with changes.

AST regens were miserable before this patch.

Lv 60 Regen: 619 MP for a 7 tick 150 potency regen (POTt: 1050) efficency was 1.69 Potency/MP

Lv 60 Aspected Benefic (Under Diurnal): 707 MP Pre 3.07 was 190 Initial, 6 tick 100 regen for a POTt of 790. Efficiency was 1.11 Potency/MP

Post 3.07 we have 190 initial, 6 tick 140 regen for a POTt of 1030. Efficiency is now 1.45 Potency/MP. This is a 30% buff to that skill alone. Then you add in the 5% given to Benefic 1 and 2 to make those on par with WHM's potencies.

I hate how everyone is taking the hooting and hollering that is coming out of ASTs from these buffs. The class was gimped until this point. Heals per second WHM still wins. Damage over time SCH still win. But I'm not gimped because I can pick a fucking stance before every fight.

[Kipling]

Yes, you're not gimped in content where composition doesn't matter.

If doing Savage, where composition matters, you are gimped if you are with a WHM. AST/SCH is just fine though. That's why I am saying in raids it's basically as if the stance switching doesn't matter, because currently SCH cannot be replaced. That is a flaw. Jobs should never be irreplaceable in a composition if they want to let players add their own spice by varying things. It'd be like bringing PLD PLD to Savage. Like... you can do it sure but... why would you ever.

[DeadlyWaltz]

You're from OF aren't you?

I got banned from OF when 2.0 started. Lol.

But overall as a Healer I might not like DPSing, but if my raid honestly needs it then I'll do it. Right now with how AST is, I don't see their DPS being much of a contribution towards end-game raids. I've DPS'd quite a few times however on Bismarck EX during the initial first phase. Usually I asked a White Mage (Scholar if one is there) to solo Heal for a bit. I'm a Scholar going to AST so I know what it's like to DPS. I got burned out on raiding after Coil, when 3.0 came around it was a different story due to how Alexander worked, but A1 compared to A1S is two completely different pieces of content imo. In A1S I would very much DPS since the DPS crunches there are unforgiving and I believe an FC member told me with Oppressor and .5 if you even mess up on the % Decimal (i.e - 35.6%) You'll still wipe. Like in some cases I see Healer DPSing being viable but in others I don't see it. I just don't understand where people get the whole "You're a healer you "HAVE" to DPS." When the main priority for any Healer is keeping your raid alive. If I can squeeze it in, sure. But expecting it full blown off the bat, no. I've had too many instances where I've been yelled at for DPSing more than Healing so I've marked it off as something I shouldn't do unless it's requested.

[Dotsudoku]

Your main priority on any job in any situation is to offer everything you can to the group. You're creating a false dilemma. As far as I'm concerned, you're no less required to DPS when healing isn't necessary as you are to heal when healing is necessary. If a person isn't confident enough to be fluid, fine, they should probably work on that. They're otherwise just lazy, which again, is fine, but call it what it is.

[Dotsudoku]

And if it helps to put the issue into perspective, your argument amounts to a DPS knowing exactly how much damage they have to do to clear something, and making the conscious decision not to do any additional damage beyond that.