Dark Knight Discussion

[Kalima]

I actually dont mind the animations. Ever since they first revealed the job, those have been part of what drew me to wanting to play it.

But aesthetics aside...lets talk rotations. Because I want to try and get the best out of mine.... Here's what I'm doing at the moment:

Single Target: Unmend > Plunge > Unleash + Passenger. If I feel like my DPS are going ham then I do Hard + salted earth > Spinning > Power from there. If I feel like I'm good then its Hard + salted > Siphon + (Low blow/reprisal if they're up) > DA Carve > Soul Eater or Delirium if needed. Then just spam DA+SE combo as necessary.

What I'm trying to figure out (if there are no problems with the above) is where is the optimal time to do Scourge? I feel like putting it as the first GCD before Hard might make me behind in enmity if needed. If not, is it more optimal for DPS near the beginning or prioritize everything else and tag it on at the end before my next combo?

Multi target seems to be more straight forward, but I'll take any suggestions in optimizing it:
Unmend first target > Plunge another > Unleash + Passenger > Unleash + Salted. From there its a matter of spamming Unleash while gaining back MP through Blood Price, Carve and spit, and Sole. Once down to low MP with no recovery then do Soul eater combos while rotating through mobs, or drop grit and Darkside if I feel safe and trust my healer (hopefully everything should be mostly dead before this happens) And of course, I'll start using DA+Abyssal Drain once they finally fix it.

[Niiro]

I feel if the animation was tightened a little more or sped up just slightly, it would actually feel weighty though. I kind of agree with Niiro; it feels like I'm swinging around a pool noodle.

^
It's ok for the weapon to look and feel heavy, but the problem is the animations are not at all fluent and many are ridiculously slow and drawn out.

I noticed this when we saw some of the first DRK animation previews long ago, I commented that some of the animations looked so long that they'd clip into eachother with with any significant amount of skill speed.

And when they do it just looks silly, because your character is in the middle of this exaggerated, laborious swinging animation and then they just cut out mid-way through to the beginning of the next animation, which makes it all the more awkward looking.

[Ramset]

After playing DRK for two days now pretty seriously, I have to agree with the wet noodle analogy.

Coming from playing WAR I like the pace of the job, but I wish the animations were as fast as WAR. When you swing the axe is like "damn". You're hitting some shit hard.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Re: Carth/Lucavi

I feel there might be some confusion. We don't feel that the sword swings are too heavy. We feel that it's not heavy ENOUGH. I stand by my pool noodle analogy. It's like you're trying to swing around a pole with a cat on it and trying not to make the cat too uncomfortable.

For an example, I think Butcher's Block, Storm's Eye, Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone (WARboner here), Royal Authority, Disembowel, Full Thrust, Rockbreaker, and Dancing Edge are all good examples of WS that feel "tight" animation-wise in a way that most DRK GCDs do not. Dark Passenger and Carve and Spit are about the only anythings DRK where it feels "tight".

Spoiler: show

[Eej]

Most of those animations are just 1.0 animations sped up so they're actually Not As The Artist Originally Intended. Also Royal Authority looks pretty garbo for the highest potency hit that a Paladin has.

[Arthars]

a little animation speed boost can make the job more appealing for sure

[FHT]

When you swing the axe is like "damn". You're hitting some shit hard.

The thing is Great Axe fighting style & Great Sword fight style are both very different to begin with, when you use a hammer to hit a nail down a piece of log, you're counting on your raw strengh & on the weight of your hammer head, the Great Axe fighting style is no different beside your hammer head is sharp on a side.

The Great Sword fighting style is different, as your GS is sharp on both side & the top part can be used as a "spear like" weapon, while still relying on some of its weight for extra power, on top unlike a spear or a Great Axe/Fighting Hammer you can't wider the space between your hands to acquire extra equilibrium or power, you can only handle that kind of sword by its handle (which is a very narrow space in more cases.)

All this being said, this is why you get this impression, SE did a very good job with that (compare butcher Block & Delirium animation) you might see what I am talking about. Kendo is kind of the same, but it does trade the heavyness of the weapon for extra equilibrium and maneuverability.

[Niiro]

Is there any real reason to use Dark Passenger after the nerf?

It's more MP than an Unleash for slightly more damage but has no enmity bonus, with the DA special only effecting the first target hit it seems like a waste of a DA.

Granted it's oGCD but it still doesn't seem worth using the MP on it unless you've got plenty to spare.

[Eej]

It's not a nerf, it's a bug, so there'll be plenty of reason to use it after Tuesday. In any case, it's half the mana cost of a DA Soul Eater for more potency and it's off global. There's basically no reason to not smash it as soon as it's up and you have the MP for it.

[Avarice]

I think the animations look fine; I really don't have a problem with them. I like Hard Slash because it reminds me of XI's Sickle Moon weaponskill. Low Blow is neat because it's a fucking kick. I mean really; is there a better animation for a Stun? Power Slash, you do swing your sword once, and then you do a blast of magic: I see no problem since DRKs are actually pretty heavily magic-based.

[Dein]

Is there any real reason to use Dark Passenger after the nerf?

It's more MP than an Unleash for slightly more damage but has no enmity bonus, with the DA special only effecting the first target hit it seems like a waste of a DA.

Granted it's oGCD but it still doesn't seem worth using the MP on it unless you've got plenty to spare.

Until they fix DA, Dark Passenger and Abyssal Drain are both a waste of DA but they're fine to use on their own. Even without the DA buff, DP is still a strong aoe attack and worth the MP cost if you can hit 2 or more targets with it IMO.

[kisada]

isn't it just the debuff that's bugged and not the actual damage boost on DP?

[Seravi Edalborez]

isn't it just the debuff that's bugged and not the actual damage boost on DP?

It's both.

[Lucavi]

I've been looking around but I haven't seen anything in writing yet. What, exactly, does Dark Arts do? Which skills are enhanced? I just hit 45 and got it.

Edit: Ah, I see that some tooltips have changed! Nevermind that question, then, but here's another:

Which Dark Arts abilities would you prioritize over others?

[Carth]

Dark Arts is a one-use buff to specific moves. Once the buffed move is used, you have to reapply Dark Arts.

The way how the buff works is specific to each move. For instance, DA'd Power Slash enhances enmity even further. DA'd Soul Eater bumps up the potency from 260 to 400, DA'd Dark Passenger applies a Blind effect to all targeted mobs (once it gets fixed).

[Seravi Edalborez]

I believe the full list of DA-affected moves and their bonuses is

Power Slash: Bonus enmity (6.5x enmity instead of 5x)
Souleater: +140pot, combo'd or uncombo'd
Dark Passenger: +100pot and Blind
Dark Dance: +20% evasion
Dark Mind: +15% more magic damage reduction
Abyssal Drain: Attack also heals for 100% of damage dealt.
Carve and Spit: +350pot but removes the MP recovery.

I'm not 60 yet so haven't tanked anything of consequence. Speaking purely in terms of benefit I would prioritize CnS for damage, Power Slash for enmity lead, Souleater for filler. Anything else is situational (Abyssal AoE pulls when it's fixed, Dark Mind I guess for more cooldown strength).

Buffed Passenger is not worth it outside of AoE imo, purely in terms of "potency given by Dark Arts".

[Kiarax]

Since your combo finisher is typically every 7.5 seconds (with a little wiggle from skill speed), there's actually plenty of opportunities to use Dark Arts on both it and Dark Passenger, so it's not really a question of wasting a Dark Arts itself but rather the MP. If you're tanking without Grit you can definitely afford to DA it just for some extra potency (unless it's a fight where there's a lot of points where you stop getting hit, killing your MP gain from Dark Price), but if you are using Grit I don't ever think it's worth the MP cost on single targets. On AoE trash pulls in dungeons you should absolutely be using it, the blind isn't nearly as potent as something like Flash but it's still a ton of mitigation, especially if you pair it with a DA'd Dark Dance (20% evasion), not to mention the +100 extra potency per mob, if you pull 8 things you're essentially getting an extra 800 potency from DAing it.

As far as Power Slash goes... after seeing the enmity modifier I hardly think it's worth using much, I always open with it but rarely do I bother beyond the first. If people are creeping too close on enmity it should be a pretty easy call to make yourself at the time. Even with just one at the start enmity is never really a problem at all in any extended fights, the only people who ever creep up on me is healers in Ravana EX since they fucking love to just keep HoTs up for extended periods of downtime in the fight. That combined with not being able to attack during the parry buff as the MT you actually have to be a little wary of enmity if you're trying to push your DPS along with it.

[Niiro]

Souleater's drain only working in Grit annoys me.

It turns what could have been a fairly handy soloing tool into a fairly worthless tanking one.

[kisada]

job is a mess, what can you say. just hope they fix it. kind of annoying I have to level war. even if war is awesome now lol

[Seravi Edalborez]

Since your combo finisher is typically every 7.5 seconds (with a little wiggle from skill speed), there's actually plenty of opportunities to use Dark Arts on both it and Dark Passenger, so it's not really a question of wasting a Dark Arts itself but rather the MP. If you're tanking without Grit you can definitely afford to DA it just for some extra potency (unless it's a fight where there's a lot of points where you stop getting hit, killing your MP gain from Dark Price), but if you are using Grit I don't ever think it's worth the MP cost on single targets. On AoE trash pulls in dungeons you should absolutely be using it, the blind isn't nearly as potent as something like Flash but it's still a ton of mitigation, especially if you pair it with a DA'd Dark Dance (20% evasion), not to mention the +100 extra potency per mob, if you pull 8 things you're essentially getting an extra 800 potency from DAing it.

As far as Power Slash goes... after seeing the enmity modifier I hardly think it's worth using much, I always open with it but rarely do I bother beyond the first. If people are creeping too close on enmity it should be a pretty easy call to make yourself at the time. Even with just one at the start enmity is never really a problem at all in any extended fights, the only people who ever creep up on me is healers in Ravana EX since they fucking love to just keep HoTs up for extended periods of downtime in the fight. That combined with not being able to attack during the parry buff as the MT you actually have to be a little wary of enmity if you're trying to push your DPS along with it.

What I was going for on DP was mainly that you get 40more pot by using it on Souleater, so until you get to the point where using DA on cooldown will cause you to use DA while DA is still on before the next Souleater (or other move of choice) it's not worth using on DP.

Again though I haven't really played around with this much in practice.

Also it doesn't have the extra potency per mob -right now- due to the AoE bug on it and Abyssal Drain, so while I do agree it's great for AoE I don't think it's worth DA'ing in general right now.

How is the MP restore on Carve and Spit? Like a free Syphon? Or do you pretty much always want it DA'd outside of emergencies?