Dark Knight Discussion

[Niiro]

job is a mess, what can you say. just hope they fix it. kind of annoying I have to level war. even if war is awesome now lol

I can't help but agree, when I heard people complaining about DRK being "squishy" I just attributed it to the flock of bads to the new job, but leveling it after having leveled WAR it.....just kinda is.

But then again, DRK has a gap closer on a low cooldown, and that's something I would have given a limb or two for on a tank for a long time.

[Lucavi]

It has a literal dick kick. What else can people want?

[Niiro]

A party spot in raids.

*badum-tss*

[Carth]

I'm puzzled as to how DRK is squishy though. They have a Shield Oath, a Rampart, a lesser Bulwark, a lesser Sentinel, Reprisal, and can mitigate magic damage the best out of all tank jobs. The only thing they don't have is a shield and a panic button unless you want to count Living Dead as that. Can anyone provide a decent explanation?

[Niiro]

I'm puzzled as to how DRK is squishy though. They have a Shield Oath, a Rampart, a lesser Bulwark, a lesser Sentinel, Reprisal, and can mitigate magic damage the best out of all tank jobs. The only thing they don't have is a shield and a panic button unless you want to count Living Dead as that. Can anyone provide a decent explanation?

I'd say you provided the explanation pretty well tbh.

Reprisal sucks due to RNG, can't be up full time, and useless against groups of mobs.

Dark Mind is pretty much all they got goin for them, but most damage isn't magical.

[Classikmage]

You know, I'm noticing people talking about all three new jobs being a lot weaker than expected. I'm almost inclined to believe SE might have done this on purpose, lol. Instead of releasing them with too much power at the start, and people abusing an OP job, they start them off weaker, than tweak them up after they see how well the playerbase uses them.

[Carth]

You know, I'm noticing people talking about all three new jobs being a lot weaker than expected. I'm almost inclined to believe SE might have done this on purpose, lol. Instead of releasing them with too much power at the start, and people abusing an OP job, they start them off weaker, than tweak them up after they see how well the playerbase uses them.

In DRK's case it looks like they were just being too careful. They pretty much ripped things from WAR(Inner Beast) and PLD(everything), but made them weaker to compensate for all of the damage buttons they put the job. Last patch made them really buggy too.

[Ramset]

As a WAR main since 2.0... I find DRK to be really fun so far with all the buttons to push. But as others have said it falls short when compared to WAR or PLD. It's fun..it just needs a tune up.

[Churchill]

I wrote a lot of stuff replying to two posts. Gave up.

I don't like AST, it feels like they made a healing class for people who can't DPS and heal and in doing so it neither buffs other peoples DPS well nor heals well.

MCH probably isn't any worse than BRD is at the moment.

DRK is another class I probably wouldn't play with at the moment. I wouldn't say it's Warrior 2.0 bad, but it has specific conditions it has to meet to add something to a raid, and I don't feel that even with those conditions met that it would excel. It's kind of like Stalker tank in Wildstar, Stalker needed the boss to attack often and not be ranged, or need to be pulled around (too often) and if it met these conditions it could mitigate and threat gen really fucking well but if it didn't it was worthless.

If DRK gathered the souls of the undead lalafells who were sold into child sex slave rings and used them to become a god when a boss favored its mechanics, then it probably wouldn't be so bad.

[FHT]

I wrote a lot of stuff replying to two posts. Gave up.

DRK is another class I probably wouldn't play with at the moment. I wouldn't say it's Warrior 2.0 bad, but it has specific conditions it has to meet to add something to a raid, and I don't feel that even with those conditions met that it would excel. It's kind of like Stalker tank in Wildstar, Stalker needed the boss to attack often and not be ranged, or need to be pulled around (too often) and if it met these conditions it could mitigate and threat gen really fucking well but if it didn't it was worthless.

If DRK gathered the souls of the undead lalafells who were sold into child sex slave rings and used them to become a god when a boss favored its mechanics, then it probably wouldn't be so bad.

I would personally change a few abilities to give them a use (or better use), such as;

Salted Earth: Keep it the same PTC/Duration but add an AoE effect defense down similar to the NIN trick attack. Because really, I use it whenever I pull trash mobs to increase the overall DPS, but it does not feel like its making them die any faster. IMO they were pretty lazy with this one, adding any additional effect would do it, but an AoE DEF Down would definitely stop ppl from saying things such as "DRK don't bring anything on the raid table.."

Blood Sword: Change it into a stance but keep it the same, maybe add a % damage dealt bonus? This could be a decent DPS stance for OT or when you MT single bosses with bads.

Plunge: AoE with an additional effect (stun?) increased PTC (maybe 20?) I use it, but I with it could be something better.

Reprisal: Make it usable whenever you feel like it. I think we will all agree with this one.

Blood Price: Convert 15-20% of damage taken into MPs because it wouldn't hurt to have another utility damage mitigation. And by that I mean, similar effect to Shadow Skin.

Unmend: increase range from 15 to 20, could be good to see that offered to all tanks tbh.

Soul Eater: PTC Ok, but the drain HP need to work out of Grit, and it need to make us recover more HP, and give us an HP shield if we go over max HP.

Dark Mind/Stance: Duration be increased and recast decreased if used with Dark Arts. Because IMO Dark Arts is too expensive MP wise for what it bring.

Carve & Spit; Stay the same, but add a crit bonus if used with Dark Arts. Would be a proper DPS move, not saying that its bad, but a bit more DPSish into it wouldn't hurt.

Dark Arts; Stay the same but decrease the recast of some abilities (be by a very tiny margin, it would be ok. But give us something!)

I say that, maybe it would make DRK too OP but it would be definitely better than what we have right now.

[Dammerung]

You know, I'm noticing people talking about all three new jobs being a lot weaker than expected. I'm almost inclined to believe SE might have done this on purpose, lol. Instead of releasing them with too much power at the start, and people abusing an OP job, they start them off weaker, than tweak them up after they see how well the playerbase uses them.

Ninja was almost perfect on release (in terms of dps). They just did a very minor damage nerf then it was fine. Their balance team is very good, so I don't know how they fucked up this bad.

[Arthars]

they didnt fuck up anything

there is nothing to balance as of now, unless your serious about expert dungeons

all the balance will come in at alex normal mode, and then finalise on hard mode

same as how 2.0 warrior finally getting balanced after people actually bringing them to turn 4 onwards

[Churchill]

SIC

I'm not familiar with all of the abilities without having a website up, so I'll just say that it feels like DRK is intended to be in between Warrior and Paladin in terms of mitigation and damage dealt.

• I think adding Raid utility is good, something that doesn't require physical attacks to occur often enough to parry often enough to keep your Reprisal on CD.
  
• I think fixing that Parry+ buff would be good, because I think at that point you have a more reliable rotation of CD's to use as a MT. If I napkin'd this right, it's like a 1~2% mitigation if you used it on CD, ~4-6% for duration. An RNG Foresight.
  
• This same argument for Paladin could be made, but something has to be done about the TP drain. I saw a parse where a guy stopped at 2:05; at first I thought he was being a dick, but then I realized he was out of TP. That's a really unacceptable TP drain.
  
• I think increasing your damage dealt at a root level (sans just making sure you can kill bosses that last >120s) is not a likely course of action for SE to take.

I think the problem with everyone right now is they're comparing toolkits and feeling like their pants aren't as girthy.

I would agree that Warrior is amazing right now, and in the right hands it can do more than any other class. Warrior is also being compared to other classes on what I would consider to be welfare bosses. I think against an i75 Twintania, an i103 Darnus, and whatever people did Bahamut at, Paladin will be able to do so much now that it's actually kind of exciting.

On this note, I mentioned before "conditions" that DRK requires to be of some use, well Warrior has those too. If enemy damage output is predictable, if outside of large predictable damage then damage output is low, then Warrior can excel. In Ravana's case, Warrior can basically be a 25K Paladin with an 8K shield and no CD's up every single time, +Storms Path. You can do this because Binding Blade always happens the same and it isn't followed or preceded by things that also really hurt (see, tanking Twintania at i75). In Ravana's case, you can also just turn her to the group for Binding, take zero damage, and stay in Deliverance the whole time.

[Carth]

There's a lot I could change about the job, but I think the biggest deal (outside of fixing bugs) is Blood Weapon, Reprisal, and Dark Arts. Blood Weapon can't remain the way it is now without some form of TP generation, especially if you make it a stance. You'll eat through TP way too fast.

I think the biggest problem with Dark Arts is it's required to get all the good stuff out of DRK, which means eating up a big chunk of your MP and then requiring a recast makes it pretty terrible as most abilities (especially the defense abilities) are just not worth using DA on. Dark Arts needs to stay up like how Dark Side does and the MP costs need to be lowered. That way we can we can use DA similarly to how it was initially bugged but with the MP costs to not allow us to go nuts with it.

The -DG from Reprisal needs to be taken off and replaced with another effect (probably a Slow effect). The -DG should be given to another ability, probably to Soul Eater if they don't want to buff the HP drain to 200%.

Also gonna echo what people mostly feel and say Dark Dance needs to be brought up in line with Keen Flurry, which shits all over Dark Dance even without the trait. In fact, lets just give the job LNC cross-class skills and call it a day.

[Niiro]

Does Carve and Spit with DA go from 100+100+100 to 450+450+450?

Because that sounds pretty goddamn absurd for a 60s cooldown <_<

(also what kind of name is that for a skill?)

[solracht]

the potencies listed are the totals, not the potency per hit

[Niiro]

That would mean it's potency without DA would be 33+33+33.

The wording is poor but I assume then it just goes from 100x3 to 150x3.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I assumed it was just 100pot and 450pot and "threefold" didnt mean anything. *not60yet

[Niiro]

It's description is the same as NIN's lvl 60 skill, which is 3 separate strikes.

Well, not the same but very similar, "delivers a threefold attack".

[solracht]

That would mean it's potency without DA would be 33+33+33.

Yes, that's what it means. It is a 100 potency strike without DA lol

You hit the striking dummy for 470 damage.
You use Carve and Spit.
> The striking dummy takes 431 damage.
> You recover 884 MP.
You hit the striking dummy for 483 damage.