Dark Knight Discussion

[Niiro]

Blood Weapon and Blood Price need to share a recast and be usable regardless of stance.

Or just let Blood Weapon be usable in Grit.

Also remove the Haste effect or have it restore a bit of TP like Quick Reload.

[Jahaudant]

Also remove the Haste effect or have it restore a bit of TP like Quick Reload.

I get that you want to help patch the horrible TP issues but simply removing the Haste effect doesn't really help at all. Sure, you wouldn't use your TP as fast but after 4 minutes (or whatever) you would still have done exactly the same amount of damage as you would have with the haste effect.

[FHT]

I did A2 as well yesterday for the first time and solo tanked it. There were a few times things got a bit tight with MP management, but had some really good healers and DPS were good about bringing mobs to the center and not have me chase them around. Definitely had to play more defensively and be careful than anything though.

That is the thing, with the right party DRK is amazing but with the common DF idiot you're penalized because of the MP cost of most thing, which is why having a WAR is much better in that kind of situation. SE failed big time here again because most raid/fight depend exclusively on a party common sense and synchro, and to me they kinda ignored that when they released the DRK's abilities.

Also remove the Haste effect or have it restore a bit of TP like Quick Reload.

I will completely disagree with you here, this is one of the key in increasing our DPS, I actually think the haste effect could be increased by 5%. They need to fix the TP issue by doing something else but not that.

[Niiro]

I get that you want to help patch the horrible TP issues but simply removing the Haste effect doesn't really help at all. Sure, you wouldn't use your TP as fast but after 4 minutes (or whatever) you would still have done exactly the same amount of damage as you would have with the haste effect.

The point is the longer it takes for you to run out of TP the more likely there will be a break in combat to recover.

Also the Haste effect from BW increases you're AA speed, it does increase your damage.

[Dathus]

That's really the only issue I've found while playing DRK. If I don't have a shit ton of mobs beating the piss out of me for Blood Price, I keep aching to drop Grit and go Blood Weapon so I can not have MP issues while doing DA+CnS as much as possible, because mad deeps, yo. Plus, running out of TP in this stage of the game is annoying, since now every class but PLD and DRK can restore their TP through either LNC cross or now WAR with their own ability.

[Jahaudant]

The point is the longer it takes for you to run out of TP the more likely there will be a break in combat to recover.

Also the Haste effect from BW increases you're AA speed, it does increase your damage.

This is backwards thinking. It doesn't matter if you burn your TP out in 2 minutes or 4 minutes you'll still do exactly the same total damage over a 6+ minute battle. Breaks in combat do not benefit a DRK without haste more than a DRK with haste. In fact, if you can't use enough TP before a combat break you may end up capping out again and thus wasting potential damage.

The only thing removing the haste from BW will achieve is lower short term DPS and and less frustrating experience in break-less encounters that last more than 3 minutes.

I don't understand your second sentence at all, sorry.

[Voyage1970]

Blood Weapon haste decreases both global cool down delay and auto attack delay. Auto-attacks don't consume TP so while you essentially deal overall the same damage with weapon skills before running out of TP you deal more auto-attack damage since they don't use any resource.

I think if they increased Darkside MP consumption a little bit but added a passive buff to in combat TP regeneration that could work without just copying Invigorate like WAR got. Equilibrium and Invigorate are both basically an extra 10TP/3s tick to the combat regen so making DRK have 70TP/3s tick with Darkside up seems fair.

[Jahaudant]

Ah, of course. I guess the post as a whole just threw me off... why would you argue for and against your own suggestion in the same breath?

On another note, I am pretty happy that nearly all the damage in T4 is magical, including the tank buster! If it doesn't change in Savage DRK can at least be somewhat useful, as opposed to fairly pointless, for some time to come.

[kisada]

Blood Weapon haste decreases both global cool down delay and auto attack delay. Auto-attacks don't consume TP so while you essentially deal overall the same damage with weapon skills before running out of TP you deal more auto-attack damage since they don't use any resource.

I think if they increased Darkside MP consumption a little bit but added a passive buff to in combat TP regeneration that could work without just copying Invigorate like WAR got. Equilibrium and Invigorate are both basically an extra 10TP/3s tick to the combat regen so making DRK have 70TP/3s tick with Darkside up seems fair.

i'd been thinking on it for a while and actually made a couple posts on OF about this. my solution to all of that (and for PLD as well) is to make PLD/DRK dots (scourge/goring?) cost 0 TP and generate TP over time with each tick.

make an active dot provide a single, restricted linked buff, 10 TP a tick or something. I think that'd be pretty adequate and help mitigate a great deal of TP issues that tanks have. DRK would need something extra, like a change to blood weapon or adding TP to C/S (my favorite), but overall i think those would be a real solution as opposed to the bandaid crap we're used to getting. i also think it'd be cool to tie it in to the dots because it would encourage more casual players to actually use dots properly instead of 1-2-3ing all the time.

[Neon_Sea]

I really like this Job and I never really tank so I may be fucking something up but does Mp just deplete too fast in general? I feel like it is restricting my actions big time right now (53).

[Seravi Edalborez]

Blood Price while there's still a lot of mobs. On singles / non-threatening bosses drop Grit and BW. Other than that not much else. Try not to dip below 50% MP at the end of a pull or before a boss jump or something. Turn Darkside off during huge idle times (between pulls also sometimes) to help with MP regen.

[kisada]

I really like this Job and I never really tank so I may be fucking something up but does Mp just deplete too fast in general? I feel like it is restricting my actions big time right now (53).

for dungeons, to me it's not even worth it to stance dance in between packs because turning grit on is sooo expensive compared to your regen. but yeah like seravi said use blood price pretty much on cooldown. never use anything but syphon strike combo, for aoe only ever use unleash, never waste DA on dark passenger, and your MP will be at its most efficient. also in between long pulls i'd toggle darkside, but if you are maybe like 10 seconds in between i'd just leave it on.

as it stands the job is in pretty bad shape. so it's not you fucking things up, it's the job being shit.

[Niiro]

The Vault is fun on DRK because so many of the pulls are large groups of weak mobs.

With Blood Price you're frequently trying to burn through your MP faster than you're recovering it, it's the only time I've gotten to spam Abyssal Drain like it was Overpower.

[kisada]

yeah that's like the only time. super fun cause i love the animation more than anything in this game lol

[Seravi Edalborez]

The Vault is fun on DRK because so many of the pulls are large groups of weak mobs.

With Blood Price you're frequently trying to burn through your MP faster than you're recovering it, it's the only time I've gotten to spam Abyssal Drain like it was Overpower.

Oh is it not this good anywhere else? Vault is the only dungeon I have even done on DRK. We did DRK/WAR/DRG/healer (tried both WHM and AST) for funs and both healers were like "wtf this is faster than with DPS". Sucked when WAR pulled hate off me though, mah blood price MPs QQ

[FHT]

Pretty off topic, but wish our controller barre was designed to support that kind of controller XD no more ability space issue. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Computer-G...item3aa705f854

[Voyage1970]

Could you not just macro the extra buttons on that controller to Keyboard shortcuts? Might be a hassle but I'm sure there is a way to voodoo something out of it.

[Gilgameshx]

Honestly, I don't see that much of a problem with dark. It's like people are expecting 100% high rate performance 24/7 with no drawbacks. That's not how it works. TP is a resource to manage. Just like mp. There's no need to spam and overkill with emnity and burn through mp.

Yoshi stated he took into consideration how we used to have every job fully optimize damage and said he was gonna make adjustments to that in 3.0. Healers aren't gonna be able to dps as often and main tank dps is gonna drop a bit. OT damage should make up for the loss of MT damage.

I agree that certain abilities need minor tweaks. But the tp issues are exactly the same as a war or pld in 2.0. You shouldn't run out of tp as a MT and as an OT, you need to adjust like paladin OT were in 2.0.

[Ramset]

Honestly, I don't see that much of a problem with dark. It's like people are expecting 100% high rate performance 24/7 with no drawbacks. That's not how it works. TP is a resource to manage. Just like mp. There's no need to spam and overkill with emnity and burn through mp.

Yoshi stated he took into consideration how we used to have every job fully optimize damage and said he was gonna make adjustments to that in 3.0. Healers aren't gonna be able to dps as often and main tank dps is gonna drop a bit. OT damage should make up for the loss of MT damage.

I agree that certain abilities need minor tweaks. But the tp issues are exactly the same as a war or pld in 2.0. You shouldn't run out of tp as a MT and as an OT, you need to adjust like paladin OT were in 2.0.

You just don't get it. Playing the job optimally whether as MT or OT DRK is running out of TP too early. It is a fundamental problem with the job. Sad is so concerned about job balance but it is a large shortcoming for DRK.

Don't be so quick to suck Yoshi Peepee just because he's the producer. He's not infallible.

If you're just a bad player, then you probably don't notice these problems anyway.

[Dein]

I do feel like one of the biggest issues for me on DRK right now is MP management if I'm trying to establish threat with Grit up and stuff is going after other people. If I have another tank in Alex that wants to fight for trash mobs or waves in the F2 fight it can be kinda hard to keep MP up comfortably.

That said, I don't really think TP will wind up being a huge problem in Alexander Savage as most of the boss fights have some down time in them where you should get some TP regen ticks in before you can hit anything. F4's fight is the exception unless you run off to eat orbs or a tether.