Machinist - New Headless Running DPS

[FHT]

I have absolutely no issues on MCH in Alex Savage. AoE isn't meant to be sustainable on any job except BLM/SMN, and it's not even needed in any serious fights. If AoE shit is dying too slow it's prolly because the other DPS aren't AoEing which means you shouldn't be either because 1 DPS AoEing is stupid. If you run out of TP with BLM/SMN, they are bard or you aren't tossing the rook out to use paeon inbetween pulls. Seriously though, who cares about dungeon trash AoE. AoE is for trash and dungeons and doesn't matter.

Someone might argue A2s but the Bishop does great AoE damage for me there, while I burst down the targets that need to be focused(boomtypes/minds/helms). Then when we get to the first 2xWidow and the 4x Jagds, I have Wildfire for both occassions and do huge burst dmg to help the group. I honestly did almost nothing at all until the first set of Widows, my Bishop carried my dmg, then I unloaded on the first Widow and my DPS jumped 300 points and I caught up to the WAR who gets to spam Decimate and our Ninja.

The "DPS check" on A1s is light but if ppl think Faust is, MCH is fantastic for a 2m fight, and it's burst open is amazing for pushing the Oppressor early. So far for A3s, we haven't had much of a chance to do anything but I am thinking saving the second Wildfire for the first DPS check on dual hands will be a good idea. As with any progression content and DPS checks, having the insane burst capability of MCH is great imo, as I can easily break 2k burst damage for 30s on single target.

Also, if you think moving on MCH is hard or like BLM scathe, you are doing something wrong. I have no issues moving on it without doing anything other then saving some Clean procs or stutter stepping. If you are struggling to move on it or using Feint, you are just playing it wrong and need to work on it.

I think you guys misunderstood me (and maybe Carth but I don't want to put words in his mouth.) I am not having TP issues and neither does he, we're both exping in The Vault and we're having trouble to see the end of it once @ Lv60.

As for the scathe comment, its what it feel like when you're fishing for a proc imho. I wasn't talking about sustainable AoE either but sustainable DPS as what to do when you're out of CDs (reload etc.) Seriously, sometime I chained 20+ TP without a single proc, this is what I call horrendous.

I don't recall ever having particularly bad TP issues in the vault, are you sure your other DPS doesn't suck and stuff isn't just dying way too slow?

Funnily the only time it went quick was when we were 2 MCH in the Dungeon, but that other player seemed to have the same kind of issues as I have, it was just super funny to be able to take down 1 Horse Chest Piece monster each on our own.

[AnnaMolly]

With Hax Etc's opener, but no food or pots because I'm cheap and haven't ran savage yet, my Wildfires do between 5.4k-5.7k sometimes 4.9k-5.1k if I'm unlucky or screw something up.

[Judai]

What do your Wildfire's go off for on average in EX dungeons/Alex Normal/Alex Savage at your ilvl? This question is purely out of curiosity since I haven't seen anyone really post Wildfire damage at 60 an beyond.

I've been casually leveling it, really slowly, I've gotten up to 58 but with random dungeon gear most I've seen is usually between 2900-3300. But, idk how good/bad that is for 58.

It depends on my party makeup and which Wildfire but I'll give you a few ideas; (idk dungeon numbers, I use SMN for dungeon if I ever do them, so this is all Savage/dummy at this point)

I'm like i188 I think(Hive Weapon, full Proto except Asuran Legs and Gordian Neck).
Full buff Wildfires; (This is opener and every 3m, can assume pt buff,pot,food)

Dummy- 7k (only time I don't have NIN and/or DRG with me)
w/ NIN- 8k
w/ DRG+NIN- 9-9.6k
A2s 2nd Widow w/NIN+5xVuln stack- 10-12k(11,912 was my highest so far which I posted just several posts back)


2nd Wildfire w/ just QR/B4B/Hawk's up can vary heavily because it is more RNG based but you can help yourself by trying to bait some procs out just before putting it on. Just don't bait too long and screw up the timing for your 3m fully buffed Wildfire. 4-5.5k is my usual I think, if I screw something up or a major mechanic interrupts me, it can drop to 3-3.5k but that's pretty rare.

There shouldn't be any issues getting your full Wildfire opener/3m off because you can move during almost the entirety of it with Rapid fire and so many auto procs. Your in between QR Wildfire can get messed up from time to time(hi2u spider popping during it on a1s) but it shouldn't be too hard too hard to get the majority of it off.

we're having trouble to see the end of it once @ Lv60.

As for the scathe comment, its what it feel like when you're fishing for a proc imho. I wasn't talking about sustainable AoE either but sustainable DPS as what to do when you're out of CDs (reload etc.) Seriously, sometime I chained 20+ TP without a single proc, this is what I call horrendous.

I don't know what either of these really mean. Trouble seeing the end of what?

20+ GCDs of no procs? That's not even possible cause of QR/Reload. Yea, occasionally you can go a bit without a proc but I find it to be pretty rare tbh, people just remember those few times they happened to notice it took forever to get a proc and never think about all the times they got tons of procs w/o reload/QR.

Yes, the job has some RNG to it, yes it is very reliant on the Wildfire/Reload burst damage but the Burst damage is INSANE and far beyond any other jobs, yes they catch up over time but who cares if it's burst or sustained, DPS is DPS and as long as you time things right, the massive MCH burst can make short DPS checks a joke(ie A3s 2xHand DPS check). By the end of any fight, I have never been completely blown away in terms of DPS, where I felt like I did shit and I've always been close to the other DPS in my group(even with having to ballad/paeon extra due to progression), or even at the top of the DPS when I helped a different group clear A1s because they didn't have a MCH/BRD.

[AnnaMolly]

I still have asuran legs, body, head, and one ring, and Valerian earrings I for some reason never upgraded. I was doing something with my stats. Was going to get Hive gun until Savage was added, getting ilv 200 gun tomorrow. Probably try for proto head and earrings this week and 1/4 for legs, save Eso for body.

[FHT]

I don't know what either of these really mean. Trouble seeing the end of what?

How it perform in serious fight @60 but you summed it up already thank you.

20+ GCDs of no procs? That's not even possible cause of QR/Reload. Yea, occasionally you can go a bit without a proc but I find it to be pretty rare tbh, people just remember those few times they happened to notice it took forever to get a proc and never think about all the times they got tons of procs w/o reload/QR.

Yes, the job has some RNG to it, yes it is very reliant on the Wildfire/Reload burst damage but the Burst damage is INSANE and far beyond any other jobs, yes they catch up over time but who cares if it's burst or sustained, DPS is DPS and as long as you time things right, the massive MCH burst can make short DPS checks a joke(ie A3s 2xHand DPS check). By the end of any fight, I have never been completely blown away in terms of DPS, where I felt like I did shit and I've always been close to the other DPS in my group(even with having to ballad/paeon extra due to progression), or even at the top of the DPS when I helped a different group clear A1s because they didn't have a MCH/BRD.

I am serious when I say TP didn't proc for 20+ (think it was 23) TP without outside help from reload. I will have to try MCH in something like Bismark EX to have an idea once its Lv60, or A1 HM to begin, I guess I worry too much about underperforming once I have an acceptable gear set.

[Judai]

Here are some parses of my MCH in Savage, 1st two weeks of clears and helping an FC member clear(3 tank A1s) ACT didn't catch all of my Wildfires on the first 2, so I posted adjusted DPS based on missed Wildfires after I watched the videos. These parses come with plenty of mistakes, since we were still learning and I was actually learning MCH DURING these, since I finished leveling it only a few days before Alex Savage was released.

Spoiler: show

891 adjusted DPS

848 adjusted DPS



For a2s I hold back a lot during first 3 waves, so I can use everything I have to burst down the first Gobwidow(my DPS jumps from 950 to 1.2k after Wildfire burst). My burst there helped us go from struggling a bit to easily clearing the 2xWidow dps check. WAR and Decimate Spam is OP.

as you can see, a 200 DPS increase on this turn 2nd week, when I realized Bishop+Hyper would be better for 2 waves.


I also have videos at youtube and twitch, if you wanna watch my MCH in action in Savage. I warn you though, the play is far from perfect, as it's while I learn the turns and the job(hi2u throwing my Bishop out during A1s instead of Rook and it sits there doing nothing at all as it isn't in range).
https://www.youtube.com/user/TMNTerps
http://www.twitch.tv/tmnterps/

[FHT]

Hey Judai, these are pretty impressive imo, I did not expect MCH to pull that much O.o. Thank you for taking the time posting these its greatly appreciated. Your video chanel was very instructive too so thank you.

I just hit 59 and now i'm like an impatient big kid.. XD

[Kirbyprime]

The machinist action “Rapid Fire” would not apply its effect properly while under the effect of “Gauss Barrel”.

From the Aug. 4th Hotfixes

[Carth]

Assuming that's when RF wouldn't go off if you use a weaponskill during it's animation and gives you the usual casting time instead, but it'd make you use up a stack of RF.

[Aiurily]

that feel when you do all 3 walkers in a2s

[haroldsaxon]

Here are some parses of my MCH in Savage, 1st two weeks of clears and helping an FC member clear(3 tank A1s) ACT didn't catch all of my Wildfires on the first 2, so I posted adjusted DPS based on missed Wildfires after I watched the videos. These parses come with plenty of mistakes, since we were still learning and I was actually learning MCH DURING these, since I finished leveling it only a few days before Alex Savage was released.

Spoiler: show

891 adjusted DPS

848 adjusted DPS



For a2s I hold back a lot during first 3 waves, so I can use everything I have to burst down the first Gobwidow(my DPS jumps from 950 to 1.2k after Wildfire burst). My burst there helped us go from struggling a bit to easily clearing the 2xWidow dps check. WAR and Decimate Spam is OP.

as you can see, a 200 DPS increase on this turn 2nd week, when I realized Bishop+Hyper would be better for 2 waves.


I also have videos at youtube and twitch, if you wanna watch my MCH in action in Savage. I warn you though, the play is far from perfect, as it's while I learn the turns and the job(hi2u throwing my Bishop out during A1s instead of Rook and it sits there doing nothing at all as it isn't in range).
https://www.youtube.com/user/TMNTerps
http://www.twitch.tv/tmnterps/

Going to sound like a silly question, but when you say "adjusted" dps, what are you adjusting for and how are you calculating the adjustment?

[AnnaMolly]

Got gun yesterday and a friend tested me. I was at 981.3 single target and 983.x AoE, using Reload+Grenado then swapping to Spread. I was told I spiked at 1.4k during my opener on single target.

Need to upgrade my headpiece and my earrings. See if I can push that up a bit. My biggest fear was being below 950 DPS which is the random magic number I wanted to beat. Want to break 1k now.

EDIT: Had a DRG for single target. AoE parse was 983 Encounter DPS but like 1015-ish DPS. I don't entirely understand these numbers or which is more relevant.

[Carth]

Going to sound like a silly question, but when you say "adjusted" dps, what are you adjusting for and how are you calculating the adjustment?

The calculation is Total Damage divided by the total amount of seconds of the encounter. (So if a fight last two minutes, you would divide by 120 seconds)

He's adding on the wildfire damage that ACT missed to give the correct dps.

[Spider-Dan]

So does ACT not parse Wildfire? I believe FFXIV-APP doesn't.

[Judai]

Going to sound like a silly question, but when you say "adjusted" dps, what are you adjusting for and how are you calculating the adjustment?

Carth got it right. The first one I watched it and added up every Wildfire ACT missed(which was all of them), then divided by the total raid time, I couldn't see the dmg from one Wildfire tho and THEN, I found out my WAR's ACT recorded everything and my DPS was 891. The second one missed 2 Wildfires, so I found them in the video, and added them on to my total damage and divided by total raid time.

So does ACT not parse Wildfire? I believe FFXIV-APP doesn't.

ACT does parse it but it is very buggy and will miss some. Sometimes it misses them all, sometimes it misses one or two or sometimes it gets them all perfect. I haven't had any response from the ACT guy in the ACT thread about it yet, idk if he even knows it is messed up.

[Niiro]

I haven't noticed ACT missing any WFs.

[Spider-Dan]

I asked one of my FC mates to read out my Wildfires, and he could see them some times but not others. So buggy parsing makes sense.

[Judai]

I haven't noticed ACT missing any WFs.

It doesn't happen on a dummy that I've seen, but it does happen in a fight occasionally. Hell, the other night in A3s practice, it did not grab a single Wildfire at all in like 20 runs. I know it's not just my settings either, as my WAR and another MCH(Kirby) have seen the same issue as well. Sometimes our ACTs even record differently and one of us will pick up 3 Wildfires, while another gets 2 and the last none.

You can watch the first 30s of this our first A1s kill and see that the opening 8.8k Wildfire is not picked up on ACT, as it says my Best Hit is a 4.2k Slugshot(yet for faust a 5.1k Wildfire was picked up as my top hit, shown as best hit before the Opp pull). In fact, by the end of the fight, that 4.2k Slug is still my best hit, so it did not catch a single Wildfire during the fight.



Yet, 3m15s into A2s, my 9.1k Wildfire is picked up just fine mid battle and listed as my Best hit.



It's not a "best hit" bug either, because on checking the Skills/Abilities/Outgoing Damage/Mob Incoming Damage/etc in ACT after the fight, those Wildfires were not listed at all. I had the issue with Network parsing before but that's been fixed and then this issue occurred.

[Jem]

I wonder if it's confusing abilities because on PLD I would sometimes get rogue 'Divine Veils' show up as outgoing damage. It would correctly list it as a nullifying shield but count it as damage dealt to the enemy.

[Tortalius]

What is your wildfire rotation? I'm only getting 7k wildfires tops.