Machinist - New Headless Running DPS

[For_Example]

This thread really has ms questioning why I have my MCH to 58 lol. Maybe I should just get my NIN to 60.

[Spider-Dan]

all the math is already there not gonna bother

Let's try a simpler approach.

The guide you linked says, "You must currently have 225+ potency on an attack to make Gauss Barrel’s effect outweigh auto attacks." This "225+ potency" is clearly BEFORE IAD2/GB/HS modifiers, as shown here:

IAD2*GB*HS
1.2*1.3*1.05=1.638
Thus we’ll be using 1.638 as our multiplier for Gauss Barrel
[...]
Gauss Barrel: 225*1.638=368.55 potency

Cleaner Shot is 200 potency without ammo (and if you have ammo, you should always have GB on). MCH has no higher potency GCD attack. So why are we discussing the appropriate GCD time to determine GB/noGB swapping for a 225 potency GCD attack when MCH has no such attack?

He even says it at the end:

Here’s the numbers on what you’d need GCD wise to outweigh AA damage
140potency=1.512sec GCD
180 potency=1.944sec GCD
200 potency=2.16sec GCD
220 potency=2.376sec GCD

Split Shot averages ~155 potency (including procs), which puts it between 1.512sec GCD and 1.944sec GCD, as per above. In fact, I just gave you the actual number: 1.674sec.

[Judai]

If anyone other then him doesn't get why stance dancing is better until you hit 2.41gcd, i'll explain but it's pretty fucking obvious and I deleted my response to you.

This thread really has ms questioning why I have my MCH to 58 lol. Maybe I should just get my NIN to 60.

wat, MCH is pretty great, idk what in this thread says otherwise atm unless you expected it to be super dps instead of "support" dps.

[Spider-Dan]

I am saying that stance dancing is better until you hit 1.674 GCD.

[Niiro]

So why are we discussing the appropriate GCD time to determine GB/noGB swapping for a 225 potency GCD attack when MCH has no such attack?

Lead Shot.

[Spider-Dan]

I'm going to pretend you're not having problems figuring out whether or not you should have GB on for the application of a DoT.
Or that you're making that decision based on your current GCD.

[Kirbyprime]

I'm going to assume that the only time you would have a lower than 225 potency attack is when you have a un-ammo'ed Split Shot and Hot Shot. Everything else should be higher since you should only really be using it when it's triggered which would make Slug Shot / Clean Shot 280 and 300 respectively.

[Spider-Dan]

Enhanced Slug Shot is 180 potency (200 with ammo).
Cleaner Shot is 200 potency (220 with ammo).
If you have ammo then GB should be on regardless of your current GCD.

[Psion]

what about when youre using AoE attacks? 100 potency x 3 mobs is 300 potency, so it would be better then for AoEing trash, no? (my mch is 46, please don't kill me as i know not everything mch gets yet.)

[Spider-Dan]

If you're in a situation where using AOE is worthwhile, you should have GB up.

[Deader2818]

so all i want to knowis.

how do i know when im at 2.41 GCD

[bori]

so all i want to knowis.

how do i know when im at 2.41 GCD

Look at your standard ability recast time , i.e slug shot

[Judai]

I'm going to assume that the only time you would have a lower than 225 potency attack is when you have a un-ammo'ed Split Shot and Hot Shot. Everything else should be higher since you should only really be using it when it's triggered which would make Slug Shot / Clean Shot 280 and 300 respectively.

this guy gets stance dancing

[Kirbyprime]

Humm... always thought bonus meant added on but anyways, I did some quick dummy tests and yeah, you're right, Slug = 180, Clean = 200.

Looking into the 225 potency thing, I can across this by Hax. It was posted a month back, but to my knowledge there hasn't been any MCH changes since then.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hinist/ct8r9cd

[Spider-Dan]

this guy gets stance dancing

Ironic that you choose to cite a post with (admitted) erroneous math as your support. MCH has no 225 potency GCD attack that isn't a DoT, and DoTs should have GB regardless of your current GCD.

So basically, 2.41 GCD has no significance. The real number to hit (based on the attacks that MCH actually has) is 1.67, which you won't ever get to. So (excepting some Wildfire optimization) stance dancing has nothing to do with your skill speed.

However, I think the real impact to stance dancing will come from the impending QR recast reduction. The more often you have ammo, the less often you have a stance dance window.

Humm... always thought bonus meant added on but anyways, I did some quick dummy tests and yeah, you're right, Slug = 180, Clean = 200.

Looking into the 225 potency thing, I can across this by Hax. It was posted a month back, but to my knowledge there hasn't been any MCH changes since then.

If you look at the tooltip for Split, it says "adds 80 to Slug," and if you look at the tooltip for Slug, it says "adds 100 to Clean." The "bonus potency" parts on Slug and Clean are basically worded the same as "combo potency" on other jobs, which is the net (not added) potency under proc conditions. And as you noted, dummy testing confirms.

[bori]

I get so flustered on my rotation sometimes on Ravana Extreme - couldn't even imagine adding stance dancing to the mix. I get so focused on the mechanics of the fight that sometimes I forget where I am In my rotation and so I screw it up and lower my DPS. Granted once that fight becomes second nature to me I think it'll be better.

[Judai]

Ironic that you choose to cite a post with (admitted) erroneous math as your support. MCH has no 225 potency GCD attack that isn't a DoT, and DoTs should have GB regardless of your current GCD.

You are a complete fucking moron, you didn't read the doc properly at all. Go away.

[Spider-Dan]

One of the two of us has clearly explained all the math behind his statements.
It's not you.

If you have a problem with my math, feel free to point out what it is, instead of playing this "well if you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you" game.

Is the solution really as simple as you thought Cleaner Shot was 300pot and Enhanced Slug Shot was 280pot? Because so far, the only "explanation" you have offered was praising someone who said that.

[Aiurily]

However, I think the real impact to stance dancing will come from the impending QR recast reduction. The more often you have ammo, the less often you have a stance dance window.

source?

anyway stance dancing is done under the concept that

auto + no gb split shot > gb split shot
auto + no gb slug shot > gb slug shot
auto + no gb clean shot > gb clean shot

and etc

no actual amount of skill speed will change that. like, even in rapid fire with 1.5 gcd, if you have no other oGCDs to use (this is rarely the case really, this is a simple example), you can do like, (rapidfire) > split shot (gauss off+auto) slug shot (gauss on) > clean shot and thats still a dps increase, because no gb slug shot+auto is still stronger than gb slug on, regardless of GCD. and since you have it on for the next one, the GCD is irrelevant here. this is more stance toggling than stance dancing, but im just getting the point across.

at an absurd point of skillspeed (certainly not 2.41) or under rapidfire for more than 1 gcd, your GCD outpaces your auto attack rate, lowering the value of your autos, which is why theres magic numbers for where stance dancing becomes 99% moot (the 1% being movement and gauss toggling if you have literally nothing else to do). 2.41 is certainly not that number, because with an eso wep for example, your autos still keep on pace with your GCD in a very close to 1:1 ratio at that skill speed, whereas at 1.5 or 1.69 or whatever, this obviously isnt the case

right now at ilvl 200~, i'd say that a gb reloaded clean shot=no gb reloaded clean shot+auto, espescially with the eso wep since its auto dmg is lower. the only thing stronger than that is lead shot, which is gb on always obviously. reassembled clean shot as well, but you will always put reload+reassemble together really, so its gonna be a reloaded clean shot crit most of the time=gb on.

[Carth]

Honestly, it looks to me that citing 2.41s was a very weird and irrelevant number, unless Hax was referring to Reassembled Clean Shot meeting that potency but that makes no sense.

Seems to me you should be stance dancing under every circumstance.