Car Hagglan 101: or how to get dole ripped off

[Vandole]

Have you researched the trims and options of that Veloster and what that car's MSRP was? The site says it has a DCT, in which case it may have been the lowest-trim Veloster, whose MSRP right now is 18k. It may have had a few options, but I can't imagine the car's MSRP having been above $20k.

I expect a lot more than ~$4k off of a 3/4-year-old car with nearly 40k miles. The car was probably a 3yr/36k lease return, whose residuals almost never go above 60%. And if it was a lease, it means the original owner probably had no intention of keeping it or taking care of it (beyond the bare minimum). I wouldn't value that car for more than $10-12k.

If you're in the $15k range already, why not shop for a new car? There are lots of sub-compacts that can be had for under $20k. New Civics start out at $18.5k. Fits are much cheaper.

In general, new cars can be had for their MSRP price, out the door. That is, you can usually talk the sales price of the car 10-15% off of MSRP. The sales price of a new Civic could be as low as $16-17k, which is barely more than your current price (for a better car). They won't be as well equipped, but you'll get better financing, and the car will be brand new.

EDIT:
If you really like the Veloster, get a few quotes on a brand new one, and see how that compares to your current price. If after that, you're still set on the used one, you can leverage the new quote to get an even better price on the used one:

"You're trying to sell me a used 2012 model with 40k miles for $15.5k when I can get a brand new 2016 model for $18k?"

the 2012 has the tech package, which has 4k worth of upgrades on it. if i were to buy this one brand new it would be at least 22k

edit: but i will indeed call around.

[Kalmado]

Buy a beater for 2-4k and save yourself the interest and car payments. Put that payment you'd be paying towards paying down your other debt, student loan/credit/whatever and then bank it afterwards.

Before getting into my opinion, this will vary from car to car, person to person. I tried this exact same mentality over the last four years. It's been a nightmare. My wife and I had one car with a loan and one paid for. Both constantly needed repairs so after saving a bit we decided it was best for our situation to lease one car (my wife put only 4k miles on her car in one year) and pay off the other. The other is now paid for, but it constantly needs repairs (2002 Toyota Solara bought in 2010). Trying to ride it out with a beater is a great idea in thought as long as it doesn't have issues. It all depends on the persons situation. We've had so many issues with our vehicles (excluding the lease) that I'll either lease myself for the next car or make sure to get a strong extended warranty that will be excepted darn near anywhere I go.

[Penthesilea]

Have you thought about buying from a rental agency? They turn over cars and maintain them regularly.

[Furionstormrage]

the 2012 has the tech package, which has 4k worth of upgrades on it. if i were to buy this one brand new it would be at least 22k

edit: but i will indeed call around.

4k in upgrades, when it was new. All of those upgrades are now used, hence not worth anywhere near 4k.

The best advice in this thread is to get approval from your bank/credit union first. They often offer lower rates. Then go to the dealership and sweat them out for their lowest price and walk away. If they stop you and agree to it, get some extras thrown in. We all hate to be mean to people, but his job that he's trained and paid for is to make as much profit as possible. He'll forget about you a day after you buy, but you'll be making those payments for years to come.

I once got a truck that had a sticker price of 12k (used, I needed a truck for a daily driver) for $9,000. I'll spare you the details, but after a couple hours of sending him back to get a better deal, his final offer was $9,016 out the door and I had said $9k was the most I'd pay. I got up to shake his hand and started leaving, he pulled a $20 out of his own pocket to cover the $16. They also threw in a molded bedliner, floor mats, and tailgate net (small stuff, but it's money I didn't have to spend).

[Zeb]

The thing about doing the driving a beater strategy, is to buy 2 beaters. When one breaks, if it costs more than a car payment, then sell it and buy a new beater. If it's a small fix, by all means repair it, but do it cost effectively while driving the other beater. Used to work with a man who just collected and resold beaters. He usually had 4-6 at any one time.

[Furionstormrage]

Personally I think beaters are best if you're mechanically inclined and can fix them yourself. Paying a mechanic is a sunk cost, you're never getting that money back. At least if you're only in it for parts it's not nearly as much of a loss.
You also don't have to pay for two insurances and tags and inspections etc.
Just my two cents. It works for some people, myself included. I own four cars. One beater I drive to work, one old truck and old firebird because I like them, and my wife has a nice suv.

[Vandole]

4k in upgrades, when it was new. All of those upgrades are now used, hence not worth anywhere near 4k.

The best advice in this thread is to get approval from your bank/credit union first. They often offer lower rates. Then go to the dealership and sweat them out for their lowest price and walk away. If they stop you and agree to it, get some extras thrown in. We all hate to be mean to people, but his job that he's trained and paid for is to make as much profit as possible. He'll forget about you a day after you buy, but you'll be making those payments for years to come.

I once got a truck that had a sticker price of 12k (used, I needed a truck for a daily driver) for $9,000. I'll spare you the details, but after a couple hours of sending him back to get a better deal, his final offer was $9,016 out the door and I had said $9k was the most I'd pay. I got up to shake his hand and started leaving, he pulled a $20 out of his own pocket to cover the $16. They also threw in a molded bedliner, floor mats, and tailgate net (small stuff, but it's money I didn't have to spend).

He thinks he has me at 17 out of the gate. And I did incline to say it was a good price. What do I say? I'll be going there in person on Friday. Do I say I found a better deal and he should match?

[Furionstormrage]

He thinks he has me at 17 out of the gate. And I did incline to say it was a good price. What do I say? I'll be going there in person on Friday. Do I say I found a better deal and he should match?

You're not on the hook until you sign something. Tell him that 17k is more than you're willing to pay. Trade in value via KBB is in the 11-13k range, private party sell is around 13-16k, that range assumes either base model or fully loaded.

I can't tell you what to do, but if I was interested in this car I wouldn't pay over 15k out the door (assuming it's fully loaded with perfect paint/interior/etc), and only then if it came with a really good warranty. Any less than fully loaded with every option, or with any scratches/tears/etc and the price goes down from there. I say that because I can pretty confidently say that they paid no more than 12k for it, probably quite a bit less.

If you don't HAVE to buy a car Friday, always keep that in mind when you're talking to him. You don't have to buy this one, he NEEDS to sell this one.

[Vandole]

KBB is 18 for this one. You gotta add the features. Kbb doesn't auto add proximity key and sunroof

Edit: I can also sell my car for higher than Bb value on Friday to a family member with more money than sense. They are doing me a solid. If I can get him to 16 out the door I'll honestly bite. I'm putting 3500 down now.

[Furionstormrage]

KBB is 18 for this one. You gotta add the features. Kbb doesn't auto add proximity key and sunroof

Edit: I can also sell my car for higher than Bb value on Friday to a family member with more money than sense. They are doing me a solid. If I can get him to 16 out the door I'll honestly bite. I'm putting 3500 down now.

Yeah that's not a bad deal, 16k out the door final price, with those extras. I'd hope it came with some form of warranty. It helps that you can sell your current one for a premium, and put down over 20%.

[Rulke]

Also I would never get a loan longer than 60 months. IMO if you can't buy it in 5 years then don't. And extra year of interest is just money you'll never see again.

[Furionstormrage]

Ideally you'd want to pay at least 10% extra every month, applied to the principle. That's a huge money saver over the life of any loan.
And nobody ever does this

[Vandole]

I'm buying this literally straight out of college. My salary at my job will literally double within two-three years. I intend on having this paid off in three years. Right now, doing it this way is fine. I should be able to handle this no problem

Spoiler: show

i'm a computer scientist if it helps your opinion on the matter

[Melena]

If you are smart, you use a 72 month loan to your advantage. If you know you can have the car paid off in 2-3 years on a 5 year loan, play a bit dumb, get it stretched to 72 for a lower rate/additional money knocked off as they will think they are recouping the losses on the extra year of the loan, and then just pay extra every month.

[Draygon]

Well, whatever you do, keep up with maintenance. I'm a fucking idiot and had my Sonata's engine seize at 40k miles, hadn't changed the oil in 15k. Hyundai said the engine was full of sludge, and would not be honoring the warranty, which I found interesting since my mother had previously driven a civic for 80k without ever changing it, but eh, I don't know shit about auto.

Anywho, I don't know why I'm posting this since it's common sense, but hey, just saying.

[Vandole]

after talking with my boss, he told me to call them back and tell them about looking at the carfax and other deals in the area and tell him my final offer is 14,500 out the door.

The dealer told me he'll "see what he can pull" and call me back.

I think we're doing it boys

[Melena]

Well, whatever you do, keep up with maintenance. I'm a fucking idiot and had my Sonata's engine seize at 40k miles, hadn't changed the oil in 15k. Hyundai said the engine was full of sludge, and would not be honoring the warranty, which I found interesting since my mother had previously driven a civic for 80k without ever changing it, but eh, I don't know shit about auto.

Anywho, I don't know why I'm posting this since it's common sense, but hey, just saying.

How new was the car? My previous car (an 08 civic) and my current car (13 fusion hybrid) both have oil life gauges, that so long as I have the oil changed when it's at 10-15% oil life, i'm making regular maintenance. Depending on how I drove, that's 10-15k miles between oil changes.

[Draygon]

Apr2012-Oct2014

[Melena]

I think they may have fucked you. It's not like the 80s where you have to change it every 3k miles.

[FNH]

I think they may have fucked you. It's not like the 80s where you have to change it every 3k miles.

They recommended 3k miles to get more money at dealerships.