Just Got LM-11d for no reason, anyone else?

[Aragon of Odin]

You're really the last person to dictate what SE should or should not ban for considering you deserve to be banned 100 times over for all the mass exploitation and cheating you've done in the game. No third party tools means no third party tools, it's pretty clear-cut, they shouldn't have to give you permission to cheat a little with Windower or Ashita or whatever. They specifically forbid it for a reason. Just because they can't detect certain things Windower or Ashita does doesn't mean they're not entitled and completely justified to banhammer you for it if they do find out you're using it.

God damn that's some fucking butt hurt right there lol

[Bukadan]

yeah completely obvious bias preach right there

[urat]

I actually got somewhere with Se support.

I've been directed to mail (paper mail too wow) Carl Hidalgo, the director of STF in order to voice my concerns.

Here's where we can mail. I think if a bunch of us send mail, talking about the issues, he might make a public statement or something. Maybe cause a movement for their to be some changes.

Or at the very minimum we can get some transparency.

Lets work out a good letter to mail together, and if we all send a copy of it we might get somewhere.

First we need to decide on what our concern exactly is. I think its mostly one of transparency. We need to say "hey look, we need some concrete stances delivered to us on what IS and IS NOT going to get us banned. We want people in charge of bans, not automated machines"

As far as I am aware, the lady I talked to on the phone is the first actual human to look at my account now.

Anywho, here's the address we can actually mail concerns to:


Carl Hidalgo
999 N Sepulveda Blvd #3
El Segundo, CA 90245
USA

Maybe, just maybe, we might actually get something done for once.

[dasva]

Whoa that's way farther than I got in several months of trying

[urat]

Whoa that's way farther than I got in several months of trying

Six hours on the phone, but its just about taking your time with them and NOT being an asshole.

I thanked the lady a lot and tried to be understanding that most of the time their hands are tied for everything, but after talking to supervisors and supervisor's bosses, they got me what I needed and I thanked em and headed out.

[Kainstryder]

I've had a GM say the opposite. Farming a place for hours could and has been considered interfering with others game experience. In fact someone reported that very thing in the salvage ban thread a couple weeks ago. Also had a GM tell me selling drops for gil was against the rules because it's impossible to do while another one laughed at that. point is policies change/GMs don't always know what they are talking about.

This is why I asked, because it was a SGM who had been there since 2006 and he flat told me experience for as long as I wanted, just do not cheat and don't grief. The monsters are there for you to kill. Do whatever you wish. I'll take his word over some random normal GM, because when I asked the same question to a normal GM before that SGM, the GM told me he honestly didn't know and didn't want to answer and tell me a lie really. So they're idiots. The only thing he did say was if you do something for like 9 hours straight that does seem suspicious but he never said "don't do it".

I'm gonna go with its a policy of "if another player complains about it to the GM, then its interfering with other players. If no one says anything, GMs don't give a fuck"

IE farming a whole zone while theres 2-3 other parties in there, and doing it for hours on end? Prolly gonna get in trouble.

Farming an entire zone when your the only person there? Prolly won't get in terrible trouble.

However I'm 99% sure I saw a chatlog screenshot of that very convo where a player was mass AoE farming and GM contacted them, etc, player said "No one else is even in the zone right now" and the gm basically replied "doesnt matter still bad no u"

But that was an old ass screenshot.

Gms are individual people and I expect will handle situations differently.

All of my interactions with GMs have always been "I'm sorry to hear that. Figure it out for yourself, bai"

Again, SGM said yellow=fair, you're only entitled to what is red. Areas are popular, he said you'll compete with others and that's ok, but as long as you're not griefing or saying something to others with that intention, it's fine. They look for that. So if another player says "leave" you don't have to, just be like "sorry, I'm trying to experience too", not "fuck you, i'll ruin your day" or something. If an old ass SGM said it was cool then yeah, just don't fucking bot CP and then be amazed when you're banned (not you directly, in general) and be all WHHHHHATTTT?! when you get hit.

By the way in regards to calling a GM and asking them why you were banned or what you did, they don't even know. They know as much as you do, because there is no communication with the STF. They just see "player was banned for third party tools", not "player was found to be using a speed enhancement cheat on 18:27PM EDT April 9th 2015 in the Arrapago Reef area" or some shit. They just see the order to suspend/ban the player and follow through, the best they can do is review it, but he said they are very accurate and look at each case thoroughly, it's not just a quick button press. They investigate heavily.

[urat]

This is why I asked, because it was a SGM who had been there since 2006 and he flat told me experience for as long as I wanted, just do not cheat and don't grief. The monsters are there for you to kill. Do whatever you wish. I'll take his word over some random normal GM, because when I asked the same question to a normal GM before that SGM, the GM told me he honestly didn't know and didn't want to answer and tell me a lie really. So they're idiots. The only thing he did say was if you do something for like 9 hours straight that does seem suspicious but he never said "don't do it".



Again, SGM said yellow=fair, you're only entitled to what is red. Areas are popular, he said you'll compete with others and that's ok, but as long as you're not griefing or saying something to others with that intention, it's fine. They look for that. So if another player says "leave" you don't have to, just be like "sorry, I'm trying to experience too", not "fuck you, i'll ruin your day" or something. If an old ass SGM said it was cool then yeah, just don't fucking bot CP and then be amazed when you're banned (not you directly, in general) and be all WHHHHHATTTT?! when you get hit.

By the way in regards to calling a GM and asking them why you were banned or what you did, they don't even know. They know as much as you do, because there is no communication with the STF. They just see "player was banned for third party tools", not "player was found to be using a speed enhancement cheat on 18:27PM EDT April 9th 2015 in the Arrapago Reef area" or some shit. They just see the order to suspend/ban the player and follow through, the best they can do is review it, but he said they are very accurate and look at each case thoroughly, it's not just a quick button press. They investigate heavily.

GMs dont banhammer players for botting anymore at all.

That is handled by the STF, which has its headquarters in japan.

The person's mailing address I posted above is the director of the STF and his office is near LA in the US. He's the closest person for us to contact about any concerns regarding the banning systems, and he can get us in contact with the STF and pass any issues we have to the STF

[dasva]

This is why I asked, because it was a SGM who had been there since 2006 and he flat told me experience for as long as I wanted, just do not cheat and don't grief. The monsters are there for you to kill. Do whatever you wish. I'll take his word over some random normal GM, because when I asked the same question to a normal GM before that SGM, the GM told me he honestly didn't know and didn't want to answer and tell me a lie really. So they're idiots. The only thing he did say was if you do something for like 9 hours straight that does seem suspicious but he never said "don't do it".

Even SGMs don't have say over everything. Like I said people have been banned under the "You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players" clause. Though for things like this it is generally reserved for like monopolizing a type of mob/area or nm for really long periods of time. Like cleavers would do or old school nm holding. It's not common but it has happened recently even

[Richybear]

They'll lose the physical mail like they did to someone in my LS.
tl;dr version: Guy's account was banned for a chargeback (that didn't happen, but gl arguing with people at SE support.)
Got told "Here's the address to send a physical copy of your CC/Bank statement to, because anything that's scanned might be altered, so we want a physical copy"
Sent it in, was tracking it and saw it was signed for, but hadn't heard anything back, so he called in again.
"Oh, the guy that signed for it isn't even on this floor of the building, so you'll probably have to re-send it."
*golfclap*

[barber2006]

I just can't imagine any kind of grass roots letter writing campaign A) happening at all or B) causing any action. This guy Carl probably doesn't even have the authority to say anything about what methods they use and even if he did why would he tell people what they are looking for since the result would just be smarter ways to beat his system? Throw in the fact that unless he is also running the STF for XIV he has a job that he knows is ending....well I just don't sense how an action oriented outcome can take place.

And to be a little blunt, this all assumes this is a cause that people rally around. I don't think it is. One person getting a temp ban for botting when nobody here knows if he did or not isn't going to start a letter writing campaign. The assumption, whether true or not, is that people who get banned do so because they cheat. The only question is what level of 3rd party use does SE deem "cheating" to the point of enforcing the policy with a ban. And if a dozen years of cricket chirping has taught me anything its that they will never ever ever say "Yeah, you are fine to use this, this, and this but not that". There is a 109 page thread on this type of discourse (which really this could have just been added to instead of starting a new thread) and I don't want to start another "what is cheating" discussion so let me reemphasize the main point: Nobody is going to write letters and even if they did Carl isn't going to do a damn thing.

[enoch]

Google Maps has a phone number associated with that address. You might try calling, 0'ing or #'ing out to an operator and trying to get in touch with Mr. Hidalgo directly. An informal chat to air grievances with their process and let him know to expect your snail mail (yknow, so it doesn't get, ahem, lost) might be fruitful.

[BerenTebogo]

I mean, anyone with any sense knows that there is no point arguing with SE. Even if, IF, you could demonstrate that at every point during the window you THINK you are being banned/investigated for that you were 100% clean, they could just cite any one of an almost infinite number of bullshit excuses / past occurrences that you cannot so succinctly refute.

There is nothing you can do. You can be completely in the right, you could be playing on fucking PS2 only, it does not matter. You do not matter. Your opinion does not matter. Your only POSSIBLE recourse as a consumer of their goods is to lie through your teeth and to falsify legal documents and hope for a rollback because you were "hacked", so basically RL cheating.

Write all the letters you want. Make all the calls you want. You will not get a ban reversed in a game running a skeleton crew 5 months out from end-of-content. Vote with your money and unsub if you don't like it, or make a new character if you do. These discussions are so fucking pointless, the answer hasn't changed in years. The only people to ever get bans overturned were either legitimately hacked or lied about being hacked. Doesn't matter if it was for botting, chargeback, having an IP in certain countries, or breathing a mixture of oxygen, nitrogen, and trace other elements at a fairly constant rate as a daily activity.

For the love of all fuck just please stop acting like you matter to this company. You don't. Your opinion doesn't matter.

If you want to bitch and yell and stomp your feet about how much SE sucks? Please continue, this is a good place for that. This is not a good place for "u can do it! I believe in u! u will do the thing and show u were rite! row row fight the powah!" There will be no heaven drilling here, only sadness.

[Hoshiku]

I don't think he wants the ban reversed. He wants to know what will flag a ban (and more than that bring up the point that legit players do sometimes play for long periods of time when they're trying to finish a goal - such as afterglowing a rod or completing the upgrade quests for a mythic or relic). I don't think the letter writing campaign will get us that answer but it's still a cool idea.

[BerenTebogo]

I don't think he wants the ban reversed. He wants to know what will flag a ban (and more than that bring up the point that legit players do sometimes play for long periods of time when they're trying to finish a goal - such as afterglowing a rod or completing the upgrade quests for a mythic or relic). I don't think the letter writing campaign will get us that answer but it's still a cool idea.

I know for urat this is the case, but the sporadic other pop-ins and comments that have plagued this section regularly spurred this and I think the discussion about fucking writing letters to some dude who A) doesn't give a shit B) has no power, just pushed me over the edge.

And you can take "wanting to know what people are getting banned for when playing legit" under the "because fuck you that's why" I cover in my first point and then follow it up with "because you don't matter" in the rest of my points. I get wanting to know the answers, but we're never going to so why bother? At absolute best you're inconveniencing some dude with a MBA from some state school who got hired through monster.com to liaise with some Japanese dudes who look down on him for being dishonoraburururu and who ultimately has zero fucking control over anything.

[enoch]

Trying to change corporate culture is *hard* - those of us who care(d) have tried various methods over the years with very little to show for it. The reality is, SE has taken someone who was a superfan (me) and turned them into a hater who won't be buying any more of their shit. Solely because of how shitty they've treated their customers. In the long run, they probably don't care and I'm ok with that, too. They're a business and they care about money and none of us owe them any loyalty whatsoever.

So... quite a while ago I gave up hope for them changing their corporate culture to treat their customers better. That doesn't mean I'm above pointing, laughing, and making fun of them when they do stupid things. I'm sure it'll eventually bore me and I'll wander off.

[dasva]

They'll lose the physical mail like they did to someone in my LS.
tl;dr version: Guy's account was banned for a chargeback (that didn't happen, but gl arguing with people at SE support.)
Got told "Here's the address to send a physical copy of your CC/Bank statement to, because anything that's scanned might be altered, so we want a physical copy"
Sent it in, was tracking it and saw it was signed for, but hadn't heard anything back, so he called in again.
"Oh, the guy that signed for it isn't even on this floor of the building, so you'll probably have to re-send it."
*golfclap*

Damn... that is almost impressive. That's like Comcast lvl customer service there

[Ragns]

Do you guys realize that there's nothing special about being a GM? It's only another minimal wage customer service job and most of them never finished high school.

Sonomaa and I saw the GM room when we visited SE's office in El Segundo and there was only 2 GMs on service in the middle of the afternoon. I'm wondering if they didn't cover all of NA and EU since one of them seemed to know some French.

Complaining to a GM about your ban is the same as complaining to Comcast's support about the DMCA notices you keep receiving from them for illegal downloads. Most of the time you won't get any answers from them either because they don't know or don't have the authority to.

[D44kpunk]

it's generally a bit better pay than minimum wage.

GMs in WoW also have a lot more fun with it, it's mainly just SE being SE unfortunately.

nice to see that no one in this thread is surprised that he got banned for seemingly nothing, if you want to show SE up for how they treat their customers, stop buying their products. mailing or calling and bitching about x y and z won't result in anything because they simply do not give a shit.

you're a consumer, make a choice to not be treated like shit by someone providing a service for you.

[Raubrucian]

Did u use a glitch to advance yourself? I remember the day's of savage lm17s for glitching it to drop moar gear

[Neoex]

I mean, anyone with any sense knows that there is no point arguing with SE. Even if, IF, you could demonstrate that at every point during the window you THINK you are being banned/investigated for that you were 100% clean, they could just cite any one of an almost infinite number of bullshit excuses / past occurrences that you cannot so succinctly refute.

There is nothing you can do. You can be completely in the right, you could be playing on fucking PS2 only, it does not matter. You do not matter. Your opinion does not matter. Your only POSSIBLE recourse as a consumer of their goods is to lie through your teeth and to falsify legal documents and hope for a rollback because you were "hacked", so basically RL cheating.

Write all the letters you want. Make all the calls you want. You will not get a ban reversed in a game running a skeleton crew 5 months out from end-of-content. Vote with your money and unsub if you don't like it, or make a new character if you do. These discussions are so fucking pointless, the answer hasn't changed in years. The only people to ever get bans overturned were either legitimately hacked or lied about being hacked. Doesn't matter if it was for botting, chargeback, having an IP in certain countries, or breathing a mixture of oxygen, nitrogen, and trace other elements at a fairly constant rate as a daily activity.

For the love of all fuck just please stop acting like you matter to this company. You don't. Your opinion doesn't matter.

If you want to bitch and yell and stomp your feet about how much SE sucks? Please continue, this is a good place for that. This is not a good place for "u can do it! I believe in u! u will do the thing and show u were rite! row row fight the powah!" There will be no heaven drilling here, only sadness.

Agreed. FFXI was/is an insanely successful game, just imagine how great it would/could of been if the customer service was even 10% of what it should be. SE customer service could serve as a perfect example of the contrary. I have never in my life dealt with any other customer service NEAR as bad as Square Enix. Comcast being 2nd, but still NOT even close to as bad as Square Enix