Alexander Discussion, Round 2: Wait is this the easy mode thread?

[Eludi]

Since there seems to be general misinformation on the topic of Mortal Revolution and mitigation in A4S that I have read in other places due to it being not magic but "Fire" damage I believe, I figured I would post here. It seems things like Dragon Kick do actually help simply because it's INT-10%, while magic reduction moves like Fey Covenant don't. Things like Soil/Galvanize and Storm's path since they are still straight damage reductions also work.

Kept reading people saying the only things that work were Soil/Galvanize, which we found out is not true when we kept dying due to DK/Delirium falling last second while he was untargetable.

Only path galvanize and sacred soil works, and that astro card works as well if you can get it as aoe.

[Kipling]

Only path galvanize and sacred soil works, and that astro card works as well if you can get it as aoe.

We died multiple times last night to DK falling off just before Mortal Revolution casted. We'd never used path before on it because we were under the impression it didn't work, and DK falling off was the ONLY thing that changed. We poured through the ACT logs/footage to confirm it. No change besides DK/Delirium dropping because we never used path. Most groups using a DRK probably don't notice because Delirium lasts 20s and will stay the full duration. DK will also stay the full duration as long as it is not the first move used by the MNK when the manipulator becomes targetable.

I'm pretty sure it's a case of "it was on so we just didn't notice".

[Niiro]

ACT lists Mortal Rev as just Darkness (not magical-darkness, there is no dark element afaik).

Most all attacks are primarily physical/magical with an element being secondary (if there is one) but stuff like this just seems like a bullshit way to make attacks circumvent normal methods of mitigation.

Since there isn't any light/dark element proper in the game I assume they just treat such things as their own unique damage type for exactly that reason.

Also the orb explosions are also labeled "Darkness" damage.

Since it's not considered physical or magical the only things that should reduce the damage are things not specifically tied to either (ie. SS/Galv/Noct/Veil, Soil/CU, Path, Disable).

[Kipling]

ACT lists Mortal Rev as just Darkness.

Most all attacks are primarily physical/magical with an element being secondary (if there is one) but stuff like this just seems like a bullshit way to make attacks circumvent normal methods of mitigation.

Ah okay, then it must be the orbs that are listed as "Fire". I knew one of them was "Fire" and something else was "Darkness", but I don't have my ACT with me on my laptop.

[Niiro]

Hydrothermal Missile is listed as Magic(Fire).

Orb explosions are listed as Darkness, same as Mortal Rev.

[Kipling]

I see. I still don't get it, but whatever.

[Niiro]

From what I understand:

Normal attacks are categorized as physical(blunt/pierce/slash, physical damage DoTs are simply "physical") or magical, either can have an attributed element on top of that (ie. Dragonfire Dive is piercing-fire).

Darkness is not an attributed element like fire/ice/etc. but rather a unique type of damage not considered physical or magical, so it's only reduced by things that effect all damage rather than a specific type.

Which also means it should ignore defense/mdef entirely.

[Kipling]

That's the assumption I'm working under too, but it seems to me that things like DK/Delirium's -10% INT still affect the damage put out by Darkness moves? I know Fey Cov doesn't work because it specifically reduces magic damage, which it is not, but we'd never used path before and when DK was falling we were taking 2k+ more than normal. (e.g. I was averaging taking 12k+~ before but last night until we noticed it I was taking 14k+~ without DK but still using Soil/Adlo).

I mean if it doesn't affect it I'd believe it since it's not magical per se, but it was literally the only thing that changed so I can't put my finger on anything else for the life of me. We even had one attempt where I went full retard with Deployment and hit it too early, then had to swift + Succor last second and we still lived when DK was on.

[Niiro]

There's certainly nothing to say that the the skill's damage isn't dependent on INT despite not being "magical" so that's entirely possible.

Considering all other damage Alex does is magical it would make sense for his default attack stat to be INT.

The only other possibility would be that the attack has no base attribute and isn't tied to any sort of attack power and just deals a fixed amount of damage, but if you can see a consistent difference with having DK/Delirium up then it's probably INT based, the attack type itself just isn't magical.

[Niiro]

Is the timing between when he goes untargetable and when he uses Mortal Rev different in Savage from normal mode?

[Kipling]

The manipulator is targetable for significantly less time when you break a leg, but the cast time for MR appears to be the same.

[Niiro]

You should be able to time Virus to apply to Mortal Rev if you can get the timing down, an additional -15% INT would help both confirm that it is INT based as well as just help in general.

I used to try and time Rend Mind for the exact moment before he went untargetable in normal mode back when I bothered to do it on my alt (tho based on what we know now it wouldn't effect the damage), they have the same duration so Virus should be doable.

[Kipling]

You can time it right (it's just a lot harder than either path or DK since only 10s), I just didn't bother because multiple sources who had cleared the fight on various community sites and twitch streams had stated, "We tested it and it didn't work." I believed blindly, lol.

[Eanae]

It's active for about 4 GCDs if that helps it be timed.

[Eludi]

I can already confirm that virus does not work.

[Kipling]

I can already confirm that virus does not work.

Why would DK/delirium seem to help but not virus? I'm assuming Super Virus here, of course.

[Eludi]

Why would DK/delirium seem to help but not virus? I'm assuming Super Virus here, of course.

We never noticed any difference from dragon kick on our 6 weeks before kill, path was the only thing we actually went ahead and tested (besides virus which we also did test) and it worked by reducing first mortal revolution damage (which hits for around 7k+) by around ~700.

[Yugl]

During progression, Updog said the only debuff to reduce Mortal Revolution was Disable (This was pre-AST buffs; does not work now due to the duration). Obviously, stuff like Galvanize and Soil will mitigate the damage, but those are buffs. This is part of the reason why you saw Miunih thinking about AST in Fold's picture a few weeks back. They were adamant about path not working, so I'm surprised you found reduced damage in your testing.

[TheDirtyHobo]

The fact that groups are saying such different things pretty much confirms that it's worth further testing and that no particular source should be taken as an unquestioned authority yet.

[Seravi Edalborez]

It's certainly weird that SE made a damage source that does not deal damage that is
-Physical
-Magical
-Set number

But is still affected by anything that explicitly affects "damage dealt" (so just Path and Disable).
Now if they could make this damage type blockable, and make tankbusters this type of damage? *shrug*