Treasure Hunter and its application on targets rule

[Trumpy]

My post was more for the different levels of TH (that was being kinda discussed at the time, seemed as more of a way of how can we test this) not as much the proc rate.

Is that pic from voidwatch? would it necessarily work the same as normal mobs and TH?

Ive basically been wondering about this concept tho for a while now. I kinda want to do dnc/nosub in dynamis and have my mule whm/thf. IF jsut curing me would put TH on the mob somehow it would be awesome sauce but I just have a hard time believing it. Since Curing should put one on the hate list, you would think it would work but i feel like they said u had to take direct action on the mob. so i jsut have teh whm melee when i do try that set up. I seem to make more coins jsut thf/dncing tho so i dont do that no sub thing often.

[Sechs]

Not "necessarily" but almost certainly it does.
VW afawk doesn't have different mechanics in how TH is applied. The only difference lies in the fact that you get a message when TH is applied, and hence it's a powerful method to discriminate variables in a test setting.

I think Falkrik's test is quite conclusive and I don't see any reason for us to require further testing about that.
TH requires direct action (of any form) to be applied to a specific target, period.

[Fwahm]

Regarding the other unknown brought up in this topic, I just did a test.

I smacked a mob as THF with no TH gear on (TH3), then I switched to all my TH gear (TH7, because my THF sucks). The first TH proc in the log was TH8.

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, that's how it works.

I'm afraid Voidwatch isn't necessarily the best test of TH, because TH has a different effect there compared to anywhere else in the game. The test I described earlier is the right way to answer these questions.

[Sechs]

Yeah Byrth, but we're not discussing the "effect" of TH (which is indeed different in VW), just the way TH is sticked on a target, and I don't see why SE would've created custom rules for that just for VW.

[Byrthnoth]

Perhaps because they created a custom effect for it in VW?

You could use Gilfinder and NMs to get similarly accurate results.

[Snprphnx]

I thought I had read somewhere that SE explained the Treasure Hunter is actually a form of debuff. As such, next week, when we will be able to see what buffs and debuffs party members have on them, we may be able to see if Treasure Hunter is applied through indirect means.

[Xantavia]

Why does my mule sometimes get a first proc TH10 applied, and sometimes it's only a 9? He doesn't have gear swaps when I have him on THF, so is their a TH campaign or some shit going on sometimes that I'm just not aware of?

I thought 8 was the highest base you could apply and have to move up 1 at a time from there, this sometimes first proc 10 is throwing me off.

Depends on where this is happening. In signet areas, kupopower TH can be in effect, giving everybody an automatic bump up a level. I believe that sometimes Ionis will have that effect, depending on stuff.

[Trumpy]

Yea that is why I was having problems with the voidwatch thing. I was pretty sure they added TH to the mob in some manner so u didnt have to bring a thf, but then they changed VW a bit when they changed lights and procs and such a couple times.

That would be pretty sweet I guess if we could see a TH debuff say in ballista but for some reason I think we will only see buffs that have icons. Cause TH i think is more of a hidden debuff.

[NynJa]

I was pretty sure they added TH to the mob in some manner so u didnt have to bring a thf

wut?
TH was useless in VW. THF was completely useless in VW, DNC could do all the dagger ws's, as well as steps, thats why SE added Bully. They added the "lights bonus" to try and make THF more useful in VW to bring...but it does nothing since everyone already hits the hard cap as is, unless they get really unlucky with red/white procs.

[Trumpy]

I wasnt sayin TH was useful in VW. What I am sayin is I thot they added the lights bonus so you didnt need to bring TH (AKA TH is useless). are you sayin u needed a THF to apply TH then the lights gave a bonus to that ( I thot the bonus was adding TH)?

To be honest, whenever I do alliance type events I dont pay much attention to what jobs there and what they are doin unless it is so galringly obvious (such as causing a fail) or the event is really gimmicky so its nearly impossible to not notice what the others are doin (Vagary), especially if I didnt put together the group. I just pay attention to my job which was usually BLM BLU or SMN. All I know is procs is good.

[JeanPaul]

Pretty sure it only kicks in when you deal damage (more than 0). An easy way to test would be to melee in non-TH gear, and use certain actions (JAs, ranged attacks, whatever) while wearing +1 TH in gear for more likely procs. If you get a proc to 4, then that action never counted towards; if it goes to 5, it counted.

[Fwahm]

If you attack or anything that procs in +1 TH gear, then it's automatically going to proc to 5 on the first message you see. That test won't do anything.

[JeanPaul]

Your regular attacks would be without any TH gear, so the proc would either register as 4 or 5 depending on whether the other action you took (while using TH+1) counted or not.

[Fwahm]

No, it would always proc 5. The first time you attack a mob with TH higher than what is currently on it, it automatically brings the mob to your current TH, and then checks to see if it procced.

If you hit a mob without TH gear on THF main, it will have TH3 on it.
If you then put on TH+5 and hit it, WITHOUT a proc, it will have TH8 on it.

If the mob has TH3 on it, and you hit it for the first time with TH+5 and you DO get a proc, it'll proc 9, because TH procs can happen simultaneously with setting the mob's TH to your base TH.

[JeanPaul]

I'm not sure how I can clarify without repeating myself a million times. Maybe numbered steps will help. In this test:

1) Grab and engage a fresh enemy without using any TH gear to pull/melee initially.
2) Perform an action (JA, spell, etc) with TH+1 gear on
3) Continue meleeing without TH gear
4) Wait for a proc to kick in.
4a) If TH goes to 4, that action does not count towards TH application.
4b) If TH goes to 5, the action counts towards TH application.

[Fwahm]

Well, considering you mentioned meleeing before you mentioned the other action (so the natural thought is that you were talking about meleeing first), and you claimed +1 would increase TH proc rate (when just applying base TH isn't even a proc, and doesn't have a rate), I don't think it's strange to have been confused by how unclear you were.

[JeanPaul]

Yeah, I realized that when I broke it down in that last post, sorry. Probably because I pictured this test in Dynamis, where I'd just run up to each enemy and start meleeing/trying for proc. Anyway, I'm pretty confident this test would work unless you goofed up your gear changes or melee'd and proc'd before performing the action with TH.

[Hitou]

The easiest way to test is the ranger method mentioned earlier. Char A claims mob, Naked THF/WHM cures Char A to get on hate list, RNG uses bounty shot. If TH2 procs only direct actions against the mob work. if "no effect" or TH4 procs then indirect actions also work.

[Trumpy]

Yea abilities that put you on hate list (provoke) put TH on the mob (So it isnt just doin dmg over 0.). SE said this. The main question of this thread is what Hitou just mentioned: Cure should get you on the hate list, but would it also apply TH to the mob without a direct action on the mob.