September 2015 Version Update - *DISCUSSION THREAD*

[NynJa]

You know who else can stand off the sides and watch while the AI kills stuff? Anybody with trusts. Sure, not high end content, but that is how I completed the RUN AF fights. Called a tank and healers, swung once at the mob, then moved out of range while they took over for me.

Was that durring the "trusts get double HP and massive status immunity" events?

[Protey]

Not looking for a hugbox, no idea what got you that idea. I just call them as i see them and that guy is a troll. I mean, look at his pathetic comebacks, it's hilarious! I am enjoying this tremendously. Not every day you meet the such an elaborate group of toxic bottom feeders of the internet.

I am tired now though and will get a nap, you have fun while i am gone

You have no clue about the people that normally post to BG. The core group of people are not bottom feeders; they are the ones that make shit happen. They are the ones who do all the testing then post it to wiki so all the rest of you can have access to it. They also tend to be the ones that figure out ways to complete content whether it be figuring out quests, how to kill difficult NMs, or soloing/low manning shit.

I suggest since you are new here that you take a good look around and stay non-confrontational until you have proven yourself.

[Tarage]

Please, someone just ban him. He provides nothing to the conversation and has no value what so ever to the community.

[Sephiran]

Who the fuck are all these randoms and why the fuck are they shitting up everything all of a sudden?

You should see the unofficial Facebook page after the update hit. Wall-to-wall vitriol over BST. I felt bad for the BST's but I couldn't help but laugh at comments like, "I dropped all my BST gear. Gotta find something else to play now." It took some degree of restraint for me to hold off informing him that a full Outrider Mail set isn't all that difficult to obtain again.

Jesus fucking christ, you really don't know where you are.
If I could name five people on this forum that I've actually agreed with less than 5 times around here over about 10 years, he'd probably be #3.

I take it I'm #2? Just kidding, Sath.

At the very least all the bandwagon BST(sorry, Ccl) can't easily jump onto the magic burst train like they did with BST thanks to the resistance wall NMs get. Adding more shitty mages MBing will just gimp damage into oblivion on anything that matters.

I'd like to comment on this. I predict the next nerfed job will be SCH--which sucks because it's a job I play. After that, PLD...which also sucks because it's my main. The reason being that MB rotation will probably get too powerful and too common for SE's tastes. Also, I predict PLD will eat the nerf bat because its ability to get amazing Store TP and Double Attack on gear makes it a little too easy to self-skillchain. I mean, it was always possible (especially after Ochain came out), but now it's too easy. Now, with a moderate degree of luck, you can self-chain easily enough with Trust NPC buffs against a single enemy. As if that's not enough, the sheer amount of MAB gear available from Sinister Reign makes Sanguine Blade's ability to keep you alive provided you are keeping a sufficient degree of TP gain is also pretty crazy. Not to mention the fact that practically all of this is independent of job points spent on the job. I think SE's choice not to boost Reprisal up to a three minute duration while they did do so for Dread Spikes speaks quite a bit. Obviously, I hope I'm wrong here.

If you think people like him that do nothing but reply with an insult as the first thing are not toxic then sure, by all means. If this is the standard here i rather not bother.

I think you're the BST in the picture I posted a while back. Maybe even pre-nerf?

[Sechs]

I don't really see SE doing any additional major nerf/buff to any job, but maybe I'm just being naive.

[Protey]

I don't really see SE doing any additional major nerf/buff to any job, but maybe I'm just being naive.

Still waiting for that Ultima spell.

[Sechs]

Well the 2100 jp gifts are on the way for November, there's still hope for that?

[The Assman]

Didn't they say job points will go up to 30?

[Protey]

Didn't they say job points will go up to 30?

They did originally, but changed it to 20.

[Hoshiku]

Just to clarify, are you saying the clueless mages who keep nuking in between magic bursts are gimping overall damage by constantly keeping it at a high resistant state instead of letting the NM reset or something similar? Or are you simply saying their bad damage makes the fight last longer which ends up with everyone's damage sucking cuz it's too far in its resist state? I was confused when people posted that resistance build up mechanic a while back.

So really both of what you listed are bad. I know some zealous people who try to nuke as much as possible. It's bad because it does keep the resist state a bit higher, but more because it's feeding the mob a lot of tp for minimal damage and considerable enmity gain. These are also the people who accidentally miss the magic burst b/c spells are on recast or they only get 1 mb because they're in the post nuke phase as the mb starts.

The second is far worse than the first though. People who nuke for shit due to bad gear can really gimp a group if they get an early nuke on the magic burst. Really it's the first two people to hit a nuke in a volley who are getting the best damage. If you have two BLMs who are likely to hit 99k in a volley and a shit BLM who is lucky to hit 40k and the shit BLM nukes first then you have a chance to knock one of those big nukes down a bit. Hopefully your better geared mages are hitting the burst before the badly geared ones but in a situation where you have 3 shit tier players and 2 good ones and everyone hits 2 bursts each you can imagine that the second nuke from both of your good mages will be gimped by the lackluster nukes from the other 3 (probably without the first 3 nukes from the bad mages making up for the dmg loss from the second nuke of the good mages).

[BerenTebogo]

So really both of what you listed are bad. I know some zealous people who try to nuke as much as possible. It's bad because it does keep the resist state a bit higher, but more because it's feeding the mob a lot of tp for minimal damage and considerable enmity gain. These are also the people who accidentally miss the magic burst b/c spells are on recast or they only get 1 mb because they're in the post nuke phase as the mb starts.

The second is far worse than the first though. People who nuke for shit due to bad gear can really gimp a group if they get an early nuke on the magic burst. Really it's the first two people to hit a nuke in a volley who are getting the best damage. If you have two BLMs who are likely to hit 99k in a volley and a shit BLM who is lucky to hit 40k and the shit BLM nukes first then you have a chance to knock one of those big nukes down a bit. Hopefully your better geared mages are hitting the burst before the badly geared ones but in a situation where you have 3 shit tier players and 2 good ones and everyone hits 2 bursts each you can imagine that the second nuke from both of your good mages will be gimped by the lackluster nukes from the other 3 (probably without the first 3 nukes from the bad mages making up for the dmg loss from the second nuke of the good mages).

It is very, very noticeable. When trying to MB my own SCs on SCH with a T4 or 5 it's always hugely disappointing cuz obviously cast delay and everyone trying to hit first MB means I'm fucked.

[Hoshiku]

Yeah we had a returning member at the start of escha who we had to take off of BLM because of how much harder it was making events. It's also hilarious to hear the glee in the scholar's voice on the rare chance when ppl miss the magic burst and he gets the dmg.

[DirtyWattz]

Ah Thanks for the answer Hoshi. Does the resistance reset if you wait enough?

Guess I should hold back my nukes on GEO. I have a lot of fast cast and I time my nukes better than most BLMs I play with, which lets me MB twice while they only MB once. So not sure if it's worth it to only wait to nuke once after I see their volley. Better yet, maybe it's best to only nuke once per volley using the highest tier, so the lower tier doesn't gimp the succeeding highest tier nukes?

Problem is, I think I'll have to continue playing that way because they are EXTREMELY stubborn with changing the type of playstyle where you can just spam everything... So by constantly spamming their tier 1-6's, they're probably hurting damage enough that I can still MB twice like I used to.

[Sephiran]

Yeah we had a returning member at the start of escha who we had to take off of BLM because of how much harder it was making events. It's also hilarious to hear the glee in the scholar's voice on the rare chance when ppl miss the magic burst and he gets the dmg.

I feel much better about my performance on Plouton runs now. My epeen thanks you, Hoshiku.

[Hoshiku]

I haven't done the math - that's totally a Nivlakian thing. I'm pretty sure the resistance fluctuates with amount of time after a volley of nukes.

If you're decently geared I don't think it's bad to hit both nukes on a burst but do make sure you're opening with your higher damage nuke. When we do events I usually don't have capped haste and so my timers are decent but not as fast as they could be. As such I frequently find myself nuking T6 + T3 for the first burst and T5 + T4 for the second burst. If you think your damage isn't as high as others in your group try to start a little late on the first nuke (especially if you're confident you can get that second nuke in there). Are you certain that the blms you are running with are doing worthwhile damage that you might be nerfing? GEO can put in some pretty good numbers and if your blms don't have the appropriate fastcast gear I have to wonder if they have the appropriate nuke gear. Also if your BLM are using T6 tell them to start their nuke as the scholar is casting the second part of the skillchain.

Glad I could restore epeen. :D BLM is certainly crazy fun to play as of late!

[Protey]

Or you could use an off element in between the SCs/MBs. Also, I like to MB with -ja since successive use increases the damage.

[dasva]

I haven't done the math - that's totally a Nivlakian thing. I'm pretty sure the resistance fluctuates with amount of time after a volley of nukes.

If you're decently geared I don't think it's bad to hit both nukes on a burst but do make sure you're opening with your higher damage nuke. When we do events I usually don't have capped haste and so my timers are decent but not as fast as they could be. As such I frequently find myself nuking T6 + T3 for the first burst and T5 + T4 for the second burst. If you think your damage isn't as high as others in your group try to start a little late on the first nuke (especially if you're confident you can get that second nuke in there). Are you certain that the blms you are running with are doing worthwhile damage that you might be nerfing? GEO can put in some pretty good numbers and if your blms don't have the appropriate fastcast gear I have to wonder if they have the appropriate nuke gear. Also if your BLM are using T6 tell them to start their nuke as the scholar is casting the second part of the skillchain.

iirc according to the notes from way back when they said it decays over time. How fast it decays and how fast it built depended on nms. And it's by type so you could easily just do another element. Assuming you aren't doing just 1 element of nukes it might be possible to split up the nukes. Also just sticking to your biggest nukes instead of spamming T1 helps. It's not like skillchain MB takes too long so waiting for an extra 1-2 isn't that bad. Anyways completely depends on the nm though some easy stuff yeah you can just set up a nuke loop and come back later other stuff you'd want to wait and such.

[The Assman]

They did originally, but changed it to 20.

That's lame. It's the final content update, they should go all out with the grind (not that it's really much of a grind after a certain amount of capacity bonuses).

[nivlakian]

Or you could use an off element in between the SCs/MBs. Also, I like to MB with -ja since successive use increases the damage.

I'm not certain the actual element matters as opposed to just the fact that it took magic damage. I tried testing this on the unity crawler in Sarutabaruta (just an easy NM to pop and mess with). Casting Aero I then waiting 10s and casting Blizzard I demonstrated their max damage (this was done multiple times to ensure it was the max). Casting one immediately after the other showed a decrease in damage on the second nuke whereas if element mattered, there should not have been a change.

This should be easily repeatable if anyone would like to try on a random NM to further confirm.

[Hoshiku]

Generally speaking I prefer to use my ja spell before the magic burst volley starts so that it will increase ally dps. It's my only exception to the no nuking without magic bursting rule. :X