September 2015 Version Update - *DISCUSSION THREAD*

[KetSC]

This nerf to BST doesn't really effect me at all. I can still do stupidly high damage with pets. *mid-air wank.

I still think it's silly they reduced the range (especially since the game is this late and only has two months of content left basically).

BST is not (or was it ever) overpowered at all.

Just like PLD isn't required for content either.

Basically everything (Escha T3s + Vagary + etc) can be cleared with auction house mages (2 GEOs + 1 SCH can clear anything with minimal effort and with almost no JPs or special gear needed).

If something is mage proof, then the same setup works (yes, T3s require a bit of accuracy but even a melee GEO deals more damage than a BST).

I don't think it's worth it to gear up a BST (takes up too many item slots to carry that many gear sets, jugs, etc) compared to a proper melee job. It's true BST can do somethings other jobs can't do (BST probably has the safest AoE with pets for example) but that's not enough to make it an overpowered job or anything.

And same with PLD.

In some situations, PLD is the safest option but RUN (or even GEO/PLD if the GEO can hold hate) are both far superior to PLD in almost everything (yet I still see people only look for PLDs in their PTs). A GEO tank provides you with two extra GEO buffs (assuming you would have otherwise used that GEO slot for a PLD or RUN). RUN offers a lot more than PLD in most cases and can deal more damage.

Even a WAR is probably superior to PLD in most cases too (esp if WAR is capped JP). RUN/BLU (Cocoon + more enmity spells) or RUN/SAM or RUN/RDM (if you want extra cures) can hold hate better, has more utility (AoE fast cast 50% + magic damage reduction), deals more damage (if acc isn't a problem), and takes less damage than a PLD. Yet all I hear is mostly parties looking for PLD.

Same with BST compared to a lot of other DD jobs. Not bad but far from the greatest or needing a nerf.

Now obviously SE knows this (they said it themselves in response to a request for a nerf for BST a few months ago), which is why BST only got a range nerf but it's silly BST even got a nerfed at all. It's honestly harder to gear up a BST than a GEO or any mage or melee job (which is why I think it's fair they can do what they can do). A proper melee is far superior to a BST (I mean a DNC can out damage 3-4 BSTs; at max potential, any proper melee DD wins against at least 2 BST every time; even a melee SMN is superior to BST if you gear for it as SMN also provides tons of buffs too from Avatar's Favor).

I don't play BST anymore but I've fond memories of playing it (like it was one of the most intriguing jobs for me simply because of charm back in the day; it was cool to see BST or be a BST and charm stuff) and I think the change was unneeded (even though it didn't affect much).

Lets be honest, what content can an auction house GEO x2 and SCH "not" clear? There's plenty of stuff I can see an auction house BST can't clear.

It's not the fact they did an insigificant nerf but it's the fact they caved into the complaints and made an insigificant nerf in response to those complaints.

[phafi]

so just to be sure, gearswap is still safe to use?

[Shadowlina]

Promathia is apparently untankable by BST, due to pets being unable to hold hate. (Being sent tells).
Apparently issues with trusts too, but I never encountered this on my runs i was doing earlier.

But this certainly needs more certification.

[Kanriel]

I still think it's silly they reduced the range (especially since the game is this late and only has two months of content left basically).

BST is not (or was it ever) overpowered at all.

Just like PLD isn't required for content either.

Basically everything (Escha T3s + Vagary + etc) can be cleared with auction house mages (2 GEOs + 1 SCH can clear anything with minimal effort and with almost no JPs or special gear needed).

If something is mage proof, then the same setup works (yes, T3s require a bit of accuracy but even a melee GEO deals more damage than a BST).

I don't think it's worth it to gear up a BST (takes up too many item slots to carry that many gear sets, jugs, etc) compared to a proper melee job. It's true BST can do somethings other jobs can't do (BST probably has the safest AoE with pets for example) but that's not enough to make it an overpowered job or anything.

And same with PLD.

In some situations, PLD is the safest option but RUN (or even GEO/PLD if the GEO can hold hate) are both far superior to PLD in almost everything (yet I still see people only look for PLDs in their PTs). A GEO tank provides you with two extra GEO buffs (assuming you would have otherwise used that GEO slot for a PLD or RUN). RUN offers a lot more than PLD in most cases and can deal more damage.

Even a WAR is probably superior to PLD in most cases too (esp if WAR is capped JP). RUN/BLU (Cocoon + more enmity spells) or RUN/SAM or RUN/RDM (if you want extra cures) can hold hate better, has more utility (AoE fast cast 50% + magic damage reduction), deals more damage (if acc isn't a problem), and takes less damage than a PLD. Yet all I hear is mostly parties looking for PLD.

Same with BST compared to a lot of other DD jobs. Not bad but far from the greatest or needing a nerf.

Now obviously SE knows this (they said it themselves in response to a request for a nerf for BST a few months ago), which is why BST only got a range nerf but it's silly BST even got a nerfed at all. It's honestly harder to gear up a BST than a GEO or any mage or melee job (which is why I think it's fair they can do what they can do). A proper melee is far superior to a BST (I mean a DNC can out damage 3-4 BSTs; at max potential, any proper melee DD wins against at least 2 BST every time; even a melee SMN is superior to BST if you gear for it as SMN also provides tons of buffs too from Avatar's Favor).

I don't play BST anymore but I've fond memories of playing it (like it was one of the most intriguing jobs for me simply because of charm back in the day; it was cool to see BST or be a BST and charm stuff) and I think the change was unneeded (even though it didn't affect much).

Lets be honest, what content can an auction house GEO x2 and SCH "not" clear? There's plenty of stuff I can see an auction house BST can't clear.

It's not the fact they did an insigificant nerf but it's the fact they caved into the complaints and made an insigificant nerf in response to those complaints.

So you've seen AH mages kill Amymone in 30s without the use of Idris and/or Bolster?

[Lyramion]

so just to be sure, gearswap is still safe to use?

As safe as using a Condom.

[phafi]

sorry, i meant that it wasn't turning people in to chocobos

[Toth]

Why do the update notes about the food have the same effects listed in the previous and after section...?

[phafi]

Just did Warden of Hope with some randoms that popped it. PLD WHM BLM GEO BST COR. It was harder than a T1, but not as hard as a T2 without adds. It gave a Quinary Nazar.

[Shadowlina]

Why do the update notes about the food have the same effects listed in the previous and after section...?

They changed their effects. =-=

[Yeager]

So you've seen AH mages kill Amymone in 30s without the use of Idris and/or Bolster?

You act as if you've seen a group of BSTs and a regular GEO do exactly that. And how, exactly, is this a problem for you? Does that inconvenience you in some way? Does a GEO not having an Idris disgust you in any way/shape/fashion?

Do you need a warm blanket and a cup of hot cocoa?

[Kanriel]

You act as if you've seen a group of BSTs and a regular GEO do exactly that. And how, exactly, is this a problem for you? Does that inconvenience you in some way? Does a GEO not having an Idris disgust you in any way/shape/fashion?

Do you need a warm blanket and a cup of hot cocoa?

I watched it happen just last night, yes. It is a problem when nearly all shout groups are bst bst bst because of how OP it is when done well. The fastest and safest method should not be the same.

[Miyavizm]

Anyone find where the Molybdosis Cor gun comes from yet?

[Keme]

Tell me it comes from SR...!

[Yeager]

I watched it happen just last night, yes. It is a problem when nearly all shout groups are bst bst bst because of how OP it is when done well. The fastest and safest method should not be the same.

And again, how exactly is that a problem for you? Like you said, "when done well." Not every BST out there had spent millions upon millions of gil getting the absolute best augments on multiple sets of Acro/Taeon gear. There were some pretty gimpy BSTs out there, and tons of "average" BSTs. You seem to be one of the ones who see one or two high end BSTs in action and automatically think all BST are like them.

I, personally, have been in on a Sinister Reign run where we had PLD, WHM, BST, BST, SMN, and an Idris GEO, and even with the Idris GEO playing as danger GEO with Eva. Down / Def Down auras, we timed out because the BST pets couldn't land a Ready move worth a damn.

[Miyavizm]

Tell me it comes from SR...!

I hope it does, if not there, then Omega hopefully D:

[Toth]

They changed their effects. =-=

You misunderstand what I was asking. The table itself lists the exact same stats under both the previous and new effect columns. It's confusing because it looks like they didn't change anything.

[Shadowlina]

You misunderstand what I was asking. The table itself lists the exact same stats under both the previous and new effect columns. It's confusing because it looks like they didn't change anything.

They did though originally it was MACC food with like +5 Macc (so wasnt worth it).
They changed it so that its now MACC of +25~50 dependent on what you use. Aka. Its not worthless food.

[sapphire]

You misunderstand what I was asking. The table itself lists the exact same stats under both the previous and new effect columns. It's confusing because it looks like they didn't change anything.

The Japanese notes have the changes. The English notes just have indentical columns. Not the first time this has happened.

[nivlakian]

They did though originally it was MACC food with like +5 Macc (so wasnt worth it).
They changed it so that its now MACC of +25~50 dependent on what you use. Aka. Its not worthless food.

I believe he is referring to the english table regarding the food spoilered below where before and after are listed with the same stats:

Spoiler: show

[dasva]

I watched it happen just last night, yes. It is a problem when nearly all shout groups are bst bst bst because of how OP it is when done well. The fastest and safest method should not be the same.

Let me guess they weren't ah the geo used bolster the bsts used rw and unleash? And nearly all shout groups being bst is BS. And quick checks on the ah have always shown me rather limited shouting for bst if any at all.. And dps spreedsheets prove that jugs can't reach anywhere near the dps of melees. And autos are the safest since the get basically the same gear + attachments and can call out a new one faster and though not really necessary (or even close to optimal) anymore there is always canabal blade spam plus they can actually keep hate