Race Relations in the US

[Arelian]

Incredible.

It's almost as if things can be changing but haven't reached a point where it's dead.

[thetruepandagod]

Look at Europe right now if you need a good example of why "ignoring the problem" doesn't work. Syrian refugees are literally being assaulted by people because they aren't "welcome."

You do know that every single report is showing that more violence is being directed from the immigrants to the natives correct? There is a reason that Sweden has become the rape capital of Europe since they started this massive open door system and now Germany's rates are shooting up as well. Also I fail to see how the EU is "ignoring the problem" unless you count people like Merkel etc as totally ignoring the general public opinion in which case yes they are.

Regardless 1/5(http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/19/eu-sta...syria-5398412/) of the refugees going into the EU right now are actually refugees of any sort other than economic fyi. Also you seem to be ignoring the Dublin Regulation that is forcing countries on the way to Sweden/Germany to take care of a massive influx of people that they flat out don't want to or cant. Go figure there is animosity since only 2 countries in the EU have a gigantic "COME HERE" sign while everyone else is along for the ride lest they get threatened with EU sanctions. Regardless of anything I don't think that historically there has been a more overwhelmingly welcome for immigrants from what they have been receiving in Germany the past few weeks.



Also something to keep in mind that while the vast majority of these people are economic refugees paying smugglers upwards of £10,000 to get into the EU they are also 75% or so men.


No one really seems to care that the men are leaving behind the women and kids for the most part.

[Waraji]

If there's anything I learned playing Banished for the 3 weeks it was a thing, is that you Never accept Nomads into your village. Ever.

[thetruepandagod]

If there's anything I learned playing Banished for the 3 weeks it was a thing, is that you Never accept Nomads into your village. Ever.

I learned that a 3 yr old boy and a 7 yr old girl are perfectly capable of living together and having a family.

[Hatedregret]

Quibbling about the specifics of his question doesn't really get to the actual question. Sure racism exists on all levels for all groups of peoples, even white people, but the point of his question, I think, was based on the perceived weight of racism towards certain groups. You certainly cannot argue that the weight of racism towards Asian/Indian/Irish/German/etc... groups has not wained significantly more then racism towards black people in the last several decades. The question is why?

That part bothers me so damn much. I live in South Carolina. It's right in shithole south bible belt hell. I don't know a single person that is white under the age of sixty who is purely hateful of black people for being black people. I grew up in Belton, SC and I was the minority. I was beaten up daily by groups of black kids. I've been treated unfairly over my skin color. So many people say racism is only taught, but if you spend your whole life being treated badly and disrespected by a type of person, you will learn to judge that type. I don't hate black people over my childhood. I hate ghetto people. People that are happy being hateful and ignorant.

The uneducated, disrespectful, and aggressive attitudes that a lot of youths have drives hatred, but it's towards that behavior. That doesn't have anything to do with color. It's simply because a lot of the poorer families are black and unable to elevate themselves from the turmoil. I want to believe that last statement. That people want to elevate themselves, but I see firsthand people so proud of acting like a piece of shit.

White people are no exception. Ghetto/white trash is the same shit. Color is added, but the basis is simply being a shitty human being. When people think of the south, like friggin eleven states, they usually think of shitty racist white people. The same people calling for equality and rights for everyone are the same people who will throw verbal beatings mercilessly to anyone who disagrees with anything they say ever.

Ignoring that someone is black or brown or yellow won't change that they are. Everyone has grown up to be who they are by what they've endured and ignoring their history or heritage is a slap in the face. We should see color. We should just be able to be proud for them. Happy they have endured. Glad to see they are the person they are today. This new generation is so obsessed over not offending anyone. I can't fucking stand it. We're grooming ourselves to be one. To have no opinions. To have no different views. I feel so bad for comedians in this day and age. Not only do you have to contend with butthurt opinions, but hecklers can go digital now and destroy your damn career from their couch.

tldr: racism affects white people a lot. Stop feeling so damn guilty about things none of us alive and on these forums ever did. Slavery was terrible. Black people weren't the first. Jews totally should have the lead on being mad.

[Churchill]

It's almost as if things can be changing but haven't reached a point where it's dead.

Not really. If you come to a culture and don't assimilate, you will be treated like shit by that culture. That is their fault. Since you want to cry about asians and such - if I went to Japan to work and acted like the big dick american joe I am, how long do you think I'd last before being ostracized? Do you know what's nice about Japan? They keep their society and culture intact by not giving a fuck about your mohammeds, your feelings, or your kim chi.

You do know that every single report is showing that more violence is being directed from the immigrants to the natives correct? There is a reason that Sweden has become the rape capital of Europe since they started this massive open door system and now Germany's rates are shooting up as well. Also I fail to see how the EU is "ignoring the problem" unless you count people like Merkel etc as totally ignoring the general public opinion in which case yes they are.

Regardless 1/5(http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/19/eu-sta...syria-5398412/) of the refugees going into the EU right now are actually refugees of any sort other than economic fyi. Also you seem to be ignoring the Dublin Regulation that is forcing countries on the way to Sweden/Germany to take care of a massive influx of people that they flat out don't want to or cant. Go figure there is animosity since only 2 countries in the EU have a gigantic "COME HERE" sign while everyone else is along for the ride lest they get threatened with EU sanctions. Regardless of anything I don't think that historically there has been a more overwhelmingly welcome for immigrants from what they have been receiving in Germany the past few weeks.

This. Europe is really in desperate need of growing a pair of balls. Between Indians/Pakistanis in the UK and the Levant in general elsewhere, the EU is really in a dire situation.

[Uzor]

[QUOTE=thetruepandagod;6523977]You do know that every single report is showing that more violence is being directed from the immigrants to the natives correct? There is a reason that Sweden has become the rape capital of Europe since they started this massive open door system and now Germany's rates are shooting up as well. Also I fail to see how the EU is "ignoring the problem" unless you count people like Merkel etc as totally ignoring the general public opinion in which case yes they are.

[/spoiler]
Not exactly 100% true. It's more complex than that. One of the largest reasons Sweden's rape statistics have skyrocketed is because the law around rape has changed. It was first changed in 2005 - after which it skyrocketed. In 2013 it was changed again to become even more open to interpretation (basically, "unless you get permission repeatedly during intercourse, it is rape" it skyrocketed once again. Additionally, Sweden has had a lot of campaigns to encourage more people to report rape rather than being embarrassed about it and keep quiet, which has also (supposedly) lowered the amount of people not reporting being raped. Sadly, we also have more women doing it out of spite.

While it is possible immigration can be partly to blame (I've found no statistics to either prove or disprove it as Sweden sadly does not keep statistics about what ethnic sexual offenders are), it can not be blamed only on immigration.

Regardless 1/5(http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/19/eu-sta...syria-5398412/) of the refugees going into the EU right now are actually refugees of any sort other than economic fyi. Also you seem to be ignoring the Dublin Regulation that is forcing countries on the way to Sweden/Germany to take care of a massive influx of people that they flat out don't want to or cant. Go figure there is animosity since only 2 countries in the EU have a gigantic "COME HERE" sign while everyone else is along for the ride lest they get threatened with EU sanctions. Regardless of anything I don't think that historically there has been a more overwhelmingly welcome for immigrants from what they have been receiving in Germany the past few weeks.

Only four countries voted against immigration quotas, actually. So while a lot of people are outspoken about it, the majority are still for helping refugees.

Also something to keep in mind that while the vast majority of these people are economic refugees paying smugglers upwards of £10,000 to get into the EU they are also 75% or so men.


No one really seems to care that the men are leaving behind the women and kids for the most part.

The reason they're mostly men is because they're the ones required to join the military or help with the fighting.

Honestly, imo, the problem isn't the Syrian refugees, it's the Moroccan street children. Or rather, the Moroccan 35 year olds who claim to be children. The reason is that in Sweden - unlike most o ther countries - don't actually bother to verify the age of them. So as long as they conveniently lost their passports before arriving in Sweden, they can claim to be a child, and the Swedish government naively believes them. That way they can't get persecuted as an adult. In Netherlands, for example, 40% of all the Moroccan males aged 12-25 have been detained more than once for crimes.

Again, Sweden have no statistics about this, because racism and PC. The police HAVE, however, stated that Moroccan street children are a huge problem - which naturally lead to an uproar among the PC lefties.

One thing I absolutely hate about Sweden regarding the Syrian crisis is that you get an automatic green card if you're from Syria - or claim to be Syrian. You just need to conveniently lose your passport before you get to Sweden and claim to be Syrian, and you'll be allowed to stay infinitely and get paid with almost no strings attached for 2 years just for claiming to be a Syrian without a passport. And due to the amount of people arriving here, the Swedish government don't have time to verify that everyone is actually Syrian - or even the age they claim to be, similar to the Moroccan street children.

[Andalusian girls]

lot of bad information in this thread

it is amusing the cultural conservatives who generally champion men's rights are now implying that the lives of male refugees are somehow lesser than the lives of female refugees and it's taken feminist authors to hit back at the notion
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10493332.html

more prosaically, from Syria for example, slightly over 50% of the refugees are female but they are much less likely to make the dangerous crossing into Europe more often choosing to remain in the camps of Jordan and Lebanon and Turkey. further, once a migrant is granted refugee status they will be allowed to safely and legally bring in their immediate family suggesting at least some of these young males are making the odyssey simply because they are best equipped to survive it and will seek to bring their families over when their deaths are less likely, which is a phenomenon often seen in mass migration.

the Swedish rape statistics are palpably misleading, Sweden had the highest rape statistics in Europe prior to the refugee crisis primarily because of a methodological change a decade ago, exempli gratia a wife raped by her husband every day for a year would count as 365 rapes for record keeping instead of one incident of sexual assault in most other nations, and as in many other nations the rise in the statistic results from men and women being encouraged to report the assaults rather than remain silent as they would have in decades prior. indeed given the general collapse of other forms of violent crime in all first world nations it is very likely the actual incidence rate of rapes is falling as the reported rate rises, and given that Sweden is generally rated #1 in gender equality in international surveys they may be closer to universal reporting of sexual assault than is any other nation.

and the notion that the majority of refugees are 'economic' simply because they don't hail from Syria is acceptable only if accompanied with the profoundest ignorance of the region. i guess if ISIS cuts off your head in Iraq it isn't as significant as cutting off your head in Syria. there are currently civil wars and/or Islamist insurgencies being waged in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Eritrea, Sudan, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Ukraine, and Yemen, and the vast majority of refugees are coming from these war-torn societies.

[Andalusian girls]

History affects us, and at other times, it doesn't. We literally put Japanese people in concentration camps. The propaganda we had for Japanese and German people was just as obscenely hateful as stuff we had for blacks. So what's the difference? Why do we seem to have effectively zero lingering hatred for some groups, but not others?

Personally, I think it comes down to two distinct things, both of which are super important when it comes to functioning in society (even among your own people):
1) Forgiveness (maturity? maybe there's a better word). You aren't going to get far if you keep constantly bringing up the wrongs that were done to you in the past. There is no way to truly fix something that happened in the past. At some point you just have to get over it, and accept that people are trying. Constantly pulling out the race card (otherwise known as the "you hurt me in the past" card) anytime something doesn't go your way only causes people to distance themselves from you.

2) Integration (aka: conformity). Part of getting along with society is being in the society. If you're intentionally doing things to put distance between yourself and other groups, of course you're going to be perceived as an outsider. All through our history, immigrants were treated like absolute dog shit, but they did the things that were required to integrate, and that got them accepted by the majority of people in a fair amount of time. They gave their kids common names instead of their own, they learned the language people spoke, and they learned about and engaged in the culture of the place they lived in.

yes what could be the difference between the German ethnic minority integrating with white society versus the descendants of Africans doing likewise despite both groups becoming native English speakers with domestic cultural identities

and though there was a stereotype of the Japanese as a stunted, shifty, and unmechanical people the animus directed towards them directly resulted from their position as a geopolitical opponent, with the removal of the adversarial role the prime impetus for hostile race relations dissipated.

[thetruepandagod]

Uzor

Ooo fancy didn't know we had any active swedes here, did you watch the swedish/danish immigration debate? Also whats the general opinion on the SD party there lately?


PM'n u some stuff as well

[thetruepandagod]

more prosaically, from Syria for example, slightly over 50% of the refugees are female but they are much less likely to make the dangerous crossing into Europe more often choosing to remain in the camps of Jordan and Lebanon and Turkey. further, once a migrant is granted refugee status they will be allowed to safely and legally bring in their immediate family suggesting at least some of these young males are making the odyssey simply because they are best equipped to survive it and will seek to bring their families over when their deaths are less likely, which is a phenomenon often seen in mass migration.

Seems the rational/logical train of thought but any stats on it?

i guess if ISIS cuts off your head in Iraq it isn't as significant as cutting off your head in Syria. there are currently civil wars and/or Islamist insurgencies being waged in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Eritrea, Sudan, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Ukraine, and Yemen, and the vast majority of refugees are coming from these war-torn societies.

Seems some people would prefer headcutting to Finnish hospitality.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/irakilaiset_va...auheaa/8320618

Spoiler: show

Being in exile is terrible humiliation. Here you can not do salary jobs. Coming here was a mistake.
Here is a pretty terrible. The situation is awkward. Safe here, everything is available, but here suffocate.
Iraq is better to live. It is dangerous, but so be it. Seriously, I'm going to come back. I will die rather at home, he says.

As an aside here is the interview where my cherrypicked women images came from

Spoiler: show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8n-eo5fDYU

[BaneTheBrawler]

Keep the focus on the U.S., please. You can make a thread about the Syrian Refugee Crisis, if you want.

[Uzor]

There's programs, debates and articles about it pretty much everyday in various media outlets. As I said, it is a very complex issue. While I personally don't mind immigration, I am abhorrently opposed to the way it is handled in Sweden or Europe as a whole. I can completely understand why some countries like Greece who's suffering quite the economical crisis does not want to take refugees in, most Scandinavian countries have managed the economical crisis rather well - in part because we did not adopt the Euro.

As for SD, I personally don't mind them. Thanks to them politicans and Swedes as a whole are no longer afraid of discussing the important issue of immigration. In a country like Sweden where the average population growth due to birth is pretty much stagnant, immigration is of utter importance. However, integration is handled extremely bad, where immigrants are often put, or move to the same area, giving them little to no chance to properly integrate in to Swedish culture. This, of course, leads to various problems as these areas are usually poorer, leading to increased crime rate and subsequently lower education, lowering their chance of getting a job. Additionally, as I said earlier, Sweden does not actually verify their age, which leads to a lot of other problems.

We're also extremely bad at taking advantage of the immigrants with high education, like doctors, lawyers and engineers. A doctor that moves to Sweden from a country like Syria, is still forced to go through a 3-7 year education(depending on where in healthcare they want to work) on top of the mandatory Swedish lessons before then in order to practice medicine. Very few people want to do that, which is why we have so many doctors, lawyers etc. who are cab drivers. Only in the last 2 years have politicians even dared to discuss it, and SD plays a big part in that.

Before, whenever I have discussed immigration, I've been called a racist. And I'm not even against immigration! I've just pointed out that there's some very real problems with the way we handle immigration that could be improved.

Edit:

Keep the focus on the U.S., please. You can make a thread about the Syrian Refugee Crisis, if you want.

Sorry, I was in the middle of typing the post before you wrote that, I only saw your post after I had posted it. Got distracted at work which is why it took so long :/

[Xantavia]

If people want to point a finger at those who hurt race relations, we need to acknowledge that people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't help at all. I vaguely recall a case maybe 15-20 years ago in the suburban Chicago area. A couple of black students were expelled after an incident at a school foot game. Jackson came in, screaming racism against the school for picking on these young men and denying them their education. Turns out, the school had all of its documentation in place regarding these kids. They were constantly getting in trouble, had gotten several suspensions and warnings due to their behavior, and were given a final chance which they broke. Race had nothing to do with it. They were just bad kids and Jackson quietly disappeared once the facts came out but never said anything about his misplaced outrage.

I think Key and Peele put it best in their sketch about the gay office worker (but it can easily be applied to race). "Oh, he doesn't hate me because I'm gay. He hates me because I'm an asshole".

[thetruepandagod]

I personally think that when people say the phrase "race relations have become worse" they are a response to what xantavia said in where things that shouldn't have been racialized were due to racebaiters and ratings. Similar to how the media would lead one to believe the world is a more violent and dangerous place even though almost all types of crime have been trending downwards.

[Byrthnoth]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...dition/404632/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ration/403246/

I'm not sure about the proposed solution (strengthen the patriarchical family unit), but I generally agree with Moynihan's analysis of race relations problems in the US. We have been struggling with the distinction between equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcomes and have yet to agree to / decide how to implement the latter despite having superficially implemented the former.

[Ragnus]

http://dishnation.com/rachel-dolezal...ng-shes-white/

Spotted on r/NottheOnion

"She compares her life to Caitlyn Jenner‘s and asks, 'Why can’t race be a state of mind?'"

[kuronosan]

...

[dasva]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...dition/404632/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ration/403246/

I'm not sure about the proposed solution (strengthen the patriarchical family unit), but I generally agree with Moynihan's analysis of race relations problems in the US. We have been struggling with the distinction between equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcomes and have yet to agree to / decide how to implement the latter despite having superficially implemented the former.

Well you can't really implement the latter without throwing out the former... which is kind of why there is such a division on whether to do so.

[Ragnus]

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/n...mart/75053038/

Should this go here? I dunno, all I know is that it's another white dude not charged with domestic terrorism despite attempting to commit domestic terrorism. He attempted to throw a bomb into a Walmart because they wouldn't stock Confederate flags.