NHL 15-16 Regular Season Thread: F I R E _ T H E R R I E N

[Obsidian]

I hate Karlsson for the simple that that since he puts up so many points while playing no defense he gets Norris over Doughty who is actually one of, if not the best, all around defenseman in the league.

Bullshit. Doughty is good but the idea that Karlsson can't or doesn't play defense is nonsense.

[Wulfgang]

Karlsson's reaction at 0:14 is my favorite



But yes I agree with Obsidian / PuckDaddy. He's not a world beater on defense, but he's not as bad as people make him out to be.

[Richybear]

I can rest easier knowing it's players like PK, Josi, Weber, Doughty, Letang, Karlsson that are robbing Jultzy of his Norris.


That and 30 Teams @ 6~7 Dmen per... Throw in some AHL call-ups... Ya know, he's in the top 250 d-men.

[Cutriss]

Lindback had to be scratched at the last minute because of an injury outside of practice, so Arizona apparently had to dress a banker to be their backup goalie last night.

http://deadspin.com/coyotes-dress-ba...lie-1759369227

[Bregor]

I hate Karlsson for the simple that that since he puts up so many points while playing no defense he gets Norris over Doughty who is actually one of, if not the best, all around defenseman in the league.

Doughty is still only 26 but the fact that Shea Weber still doesn't have one is fucking weak

[BadKarma]

EK is miles better than any other defenseman in the league

And weber is only getting worse with age. And will never win a Norris, not saying that he deserves one in the first place

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[Obsidian]

A stat I found hilarious is that Karlsson has a higher P/60 average than MacKinnon (by 0.07 P/60).

Edit:

Lindback had to be scratched at the last minute because of an injury outside of practice, so Arizona apparently had to dress a banker to be their backup goalie last night.

http://deadspin.com/coyotes-dress-ba...lie-1759369227

They also gave him the MVP belt after the game haha.

[Wulfgang]

Doughty is still only 26 but the fact that Shea Weber still doesn't have one is fucking weak

It's sad that Weber's window is pretty much closed at this point. No homer, he absolutely 100% deserved to win the year Lidtstrom won for a "career" award. Have to bank on Josi now; Webs and Josi placed #4 and #5 in Norris voting last year so it's possible at some point.

[Obsidian]

Also the Coyotes now have more points than they finished with last season. They still have 26 games left.

[NynJa]

But yes I agree with Obsidian / PuckDaddy. He's not a world beater on defense, but he's not as bad as people make him out to be.

But thats the thing; name the top 5 defensive defencemen, and 99 out of 100 people probably dont have Karlsson on that list, you can probably extend that to top 10. Yet he's always in Norris discussion.

[Bregor]

And weber is only getting worse with age. And will never win a Norris, not saying that he deserves one in the first place

It's sad that Weber's window is pretty much closed at this point. No homer, he absolutely 100% deserved to win the year Lidtstrom won for a "career" award. Have to bank on Josi now; Webs and Josi placed #4 and #5 in Norris voting last year so it's possible at some point.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. Should have had one before he hit 30.

[Richybear]

All you Ducks fans can fuck off tonight as we do battle!
*crickets*

Mildryan doesn't count with his Quack quack bullshit for 3 days in the playoffs

[Obsidian]

But thats the thing; name the top 5 defensive defencemen, and 99 out of 100 people probably dont have Karlsson on that list, you can probably extend that to top 10. Yet he's always in Norris discussion.

That's because 99 people out of 100 are stupid and think Karlsson can't play defense when his stats show the exact opposite.

[BadKarma]

Karlsson doesn't have to play defense that well because he always has the puck when he's on the ice. He's completely fine defensively and elite like nobody else defensively

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[NynJa]

Numbers posted below are at 5v5, consisting of Karlsson, PK, Weber, Doughty, Faulk, Chara, Keith, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Giordano, Vlasic:

ZSO%Rel to team, Karlsson is first among those players with an 11.4%. This means he gets sheltered the most out of these players. Hedman at 7.88, OEL at 6.5. PK at 4.3
CF% Karlsson is 6th, with 52.16%. Doughty is first at 58.88 (who had a ZSO%Rel of 1.46%), Hedman at 56.72, PK at 53.10. For all the sheltering Karlsson gets, his CF shouldnt be middle of the pack.
SCF60, Karlsson is 3rd at 28.42.
SCA60, Karlsson is 2nd at 28.17. Now, remember Karlsson is sheltered as fuck, yet he's second in SCA60. Chara is first in SCA60, yet he's also got a ZSO%Rel of -10.31. Keith has a ZSO%Rel of -8.93%, and his SCA60 is 3rd LOWEST at 23.39.
HSCF60 Karlsson is 5th, and Karlsson is 4th in HSCA60. His HSCA60 is 11.63, the same as Chara...except Karlsson starts in the Dzone a lot less than Chara does.


PK ToI per game (this is obviously not at 5v5):
OEL with the lowest at 0.47. Karlsson second lowest at 1.14 per game.
The Sens have the second worst PK% in the league (74%). Perhaps Karlsson gets very little PK time because the Sens are disciplined, but thats not the case since theyre 13th in times short handed. Nope, looking at the sens roster of PK TOI, Karlsson is 5th among D. He's sitting behind Boro, Ceci, Methot and Cowen (in order of TOI). You can try to make an argument that Cameron doesnt want to burn his ice time on shitty PK duties, but if your team is 29th in the league on the PK, you'd think a smart coach would look to try and plug that hole.


The stats show that he's actually not very good defensively. He is essentially a fourth forward on the ice.

[NynJa]

Oh wait, among those 11 D I listed, EK has the second highest PK GA60 at 10.16. OEL is third at 9.08. The highest is Gio at 12.13.

Pietrangelo has the lowest PK GA60 at 5.71, next is PK at 6.11, then Weber at 6.46. EK is just bad defensively compared to his peers.

Of the 11 D I listed above, EK and OEL are fighting for that patented 10th spot. Except I left out McD, Kronwall, Josi, Ekblad, maybe even Rielly and Jones!

[Deader2818]

Maybe im bias but I honestly dont think you can say Karlsson is a better all around defenseman than Doughty.

I feel like if you asked several people if they had to build a team most would take Doughty over Karlsson.

[Obsidian]

Numbers posted below are at 5v5, consisting of Karlsson, PK, Weber, Doughty, Faulk, Chara, Keith, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Giordano, Vlasic:

ZSO%Rel to team, Karlsson is first among those players with an 11.4%. This means he gets sheltered the most out of these players. Hedman at 7.88, OEL at 6.5. PK at 4.3
CF% Karlsson is 6th, with 52.16%. Doughty is first at 58.88 (who had a ZSO%Rel of 1.46%), Hedman at 56.72, PK at 53.10. For all the sheltering Karlsson gets, his CF shouldnt be middle of the pack.
SCF60, Karlsson is 3rd at 28.42.
SCA60, Karlsson is 2nd at 28.17. Now, remember Karlsson is sheltered as fuck, yet he's second in SCA60. Chara is first in SCA60, yet he's also got a ZSO%Rel of -10.31. Keith has a ZSO%Rel of -8.93%, and his SCA60 is 3rd LOWEST at 23.39.
HSCF60 Karlsson is 5th, and Karlsson is 4th in HSCA60. His HSCA60 is 11.63, the same as Chara...except Karlsson starts in the Dzone a lot less than Chara does.


PK ToI per game (this is obviously not at 5v5):
OEL with the lowest at 0.47. Karlsson second lowest at 1.14 per game.
The Sens have the second worst PK% in the league (74%). Perhaps Karlsson gets very little PK time because the Sens are disciplined, but thats not the case since theyre 13th in times short handed. Nope, looking at the sens roster of PK TOI, Karlsson is 5th among D. He's sitting behind Boro, Ceci, Methot and Cowen (in order of TOI). You can try to make an argument that Cameron doesnt want to burn his ice time on shitty PK duties, but if your team is 29th in the league on the PK, you'd think a smart coach would look to try and plug that hole.


The stats show that he's actually not very good defensively. He is essentially a fourth forward on the ice.

"Sheltered as fuck" but he's on pace for 2400 minutes of ice-time this season? Okay. Karlsson has the highest relative possession number in the league among defensemen with at least 500 minutes played at full strength (plus-8.42 score-adjusted CF% when he's on versus when he's off).

His team's possession stats with him on and off the ice 5v5: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...015-16&sit=5v5. Cliff notes: the Sens are embarrassing without him and threatening with him.

He plays defense by driving possession. Is he the best raw defender on the ice? No. Does he play defense better than most of the league? Yes. Is he FAR AND AWAY the best at putting points on the board amongst defensemen? Yes. Is he a better all-around (offense and defense) defenseman than Doughty? There's certainly a case to be made for him. There's very clearly a case to be made for him in the Hart conversation because Ottawa is a mediocre AHL team without him (evidently much like the Price-less Habs).

[Bregor]

Remember when Mike Green had 31 goals and 73 points in 68 games? You know Karlsson has never had a point per game season? Yeah fuck that guy

[NynJa]

Getting primarily OZone deployment is being sheltered. "As fuck" was a slight exaggeration in the grand scheme of things, but hes not relied upon defensively. Argue it all you want, but the sens have the second worst PK in the league, and his coach doesnt trust him on it.


Yes, im not going to deny the fact that having possession of the puck is the best defence (Judai will disagree citing the habs woes), but hes not good those times that he doesnt have the puck.

You dont need to get offended, im not sayin hes a shitty player, hes still among the elite...but if i had doughty, pk and EK on my team and were up by 1 with a minute to go and its 6v4, EK is stayin on the bench.