Why Vanille is the best female character

[KetSC]

Why Vanille is the best female character ever. (And I also have a section dedicated to Penelo too.)

One reason why FFXIII is my favorite is because Vanille is clearly the best female character ever.

Vanille is an example of the old school female character. Vanille is the Snow White, the Cinderella, the type of girl that people dislike nowadays.

Lightning is an example of (newer and hipper) type of female character. Of course even if you don't like Lightning, there are many female characters similar to her.

An "independent woman" that shoots first before asking questions, knows Kung Fu, causes many explosions, doesn't care if innocent people die or not (Independent Woman, yo!), etc.

Lightning being really independent.

Imagine if l'Cie were people infected with some virus or something that gave you super powers but slowly turned you into zombies. They move those infected out because they need to be safe. That's the XIII cast.

Lightning: We are infected with a virus that is contagious and they are trying to ditch us! I'm fairly sure the president is evil. I am going on top of the world trade center and going to blow it up. Then I am going to take down the president.
Everyone else: OMG don't do that.
Vanille: But Serah said our focus might be to save Cocoon, not destroy it. (Vanille was fine being with the party at that point.)
Lightning: How I live is up to me. (I'm really independent. Screw you guys.)
Lightning: Going to the world trade center to blow it up now. See you guys later. Join me if you want.
(This is when Vanille does her own thing because she knows Lightning's plan doesn't make any sense but Vanille doesn't know she is in a JRPG.)
Vanille: How I live is also up to me too. *Runs away to minimize as much harm as possible*.

Now, you see both points of views.
The Vanille - The old school female. The one that does the right thing but isn't cool enough because she isn't killing people.

One of the best scenes with Vanille is the scene where Vanille does her wishing thing over a dead soldier to pay her respects for the life she had to end. Vanille cares (notice what Vanille in the beginning of the scene).

On the other hand, you have the Lightning (the Korra, the (newer and hipper) Rapunzel, the female person that doesn't hesitate to kill and resort to physical violence. Sometimes depicted where showing off badassery is more important than making sense.

Before I go on, I'll list the other greatest female characters of all time. Penelo's section is important.

Special Mention female characters:
1. Arciela (Seekers of Adoulin) - Without being forced too (or due to cultural expectations), Arciela starts off the story by helping people. Later we find out most people do not like Arciela.

Later on, when things get serious, Arciela does what she thinks is the right thing to do despite what others say.

2. Lilisette because Lilisette is actually clearly Rinoa from Final Fantasy 8 in the Final Fantasy 11 universe. After Ultimecia died at the end of FF8, after many time loops, somehow Ultimecia sent her soul to the FF11 universe and there Ultimecia (who is really Rinoa of course) is reincarnated as Lilisette (who then becomes Lady Lilith only be defeated by another version of Lilisette).

Lilisette = Lady Lilith (future version of Lilisette trying to save the world). Rinoa = Ultimecia (future version of Rinoa trying to save the world). Clearly Lilisette = Rinoa = Ultimecia = Lady Lilith. It all makes sense now.

3. Mumor - Prishe and Nashmeira were too busy bossing you around and getting
into trouble (and stealing credit from all the work you did). Mumor on the otherhand is the strongest female character in XI (proven by the fact she is the strongest and last boss in Heroines' Holdfest) and she is strong because she simply trains and uses her powers to entertain people (Mumor using her powers for good and not for killing indiscriminately, but has super powers if she needs to fight evil). Clearly, a winner.

4. Penelo - Because she cared about Vaan and wanted him out of trouble. That's really deep. Usually if a female character has motives, they need "serious reasons" for having them. Either it's someone dying, or their town is destroyed or something.

There needs to be "serious reasons" or else they don't count as actual true reasons (especially not for a female character).

Spoiler: show

The difference between Aang and Korra is that Korra has "serious reasons" for doing what she does (otherwise she would be motiveless, it's impossible for a female character to have positive motivations without having "serious reasons" for them). Lightning is the same. Rapunzel is the same. Ashe is this. Yuna (though while Yuna is the chosen one, there were other chosen ones and she technically could have done nothing in X, so Yuna might not count). Definitely Celes and definitely Terra and Rydia (they all needed "serious reasons" before doing what they did was positive). Would Aerith be out in the world saving people if she wasn't the chosen one to stop Meteor? We don't know but her only positive motives were in response to something (whether it's seeing a village go down or whatever, all these female characters "needed" something before they actually did something positive). They all fit in this category.

Basically, the difference between reactive characters compared to proactive. Some characters only do good as a reaction to something. Some characters do good regardless of anything. Most female characters are reactive characters (they don't do good unless something serious happens to make them do good). Lightning is an example. In an attempt to make Lightning that "tough person", they actually painted Lightning as a reactive character.

Spoiler: show

Everything Lightning does was in a response to something. There has almost been nothing shown of her that she does without first having serious reasons for them. She took care of Serah because their parents died. Already, Lightning's backstory only shows that she reacted to something instead of initiating it.

We don't know if Lightning would be the same if they lived in a happy family or not. We only know that Lightning's actions were only a reaction to something.

Compared to Korra, Aang is just a nice person and wants everyone to get along (he doesn't kill and he doesn't provoke). Unless a female character doesn't have serious reasons, then they don't do anything good (that's what all the female characters I listed shows).

Korra is "the chosen one" and she only does what is expected of her (it's her job, role, etc). Korra also doesn't really defy any norms or anything that she thinks is better. She also has a support team whenever that basically reinforces what she is supposed to do as the chosen one.

Aang tries to defy what is expected of him (not killing the main baddie for example). He is alone in that but still attempts to do what he thinks is right. His motivations aren't from "serious reasons" but from himself (his own positive reasons).

So the difference between Korra and Aang is noticeable (and is basically how most female and male characters compare).

Female characters don't do good unless you kill off their husband (Ashe), attempt to send Meteor (Aerith), mind control them and force them to commit murder (Terra), force them to commit murder (Celes), attack their dragon (Lenna), raze their town (Rydia), etc.

Or maybe the female character does good only because they are related to the chosen one (Rikku), are employed to do it (Selphie and Quistis), have to follow her father's footsteps (Yuffie), or they need to be talked with first (Tifa), etc.

A good female character apparently can't have positive motivations (or be active) without having some sort of "serious reason" for them. Most female characters need to react to something before they can have any sort of positive motivations.

Cloud is a cool guy without any serious reasons (yes, even before he copied Zack, he helped people and did cool positive stuff). Zack. Zidane. Maybe Squall. Bartz is just doing whatever. Tidus just plays blitzball but happens to save the world whenever. Snow is this too (doesn't need any reason).

Notice how few female characters (compared to male) do any good unless they have serious reasons for them?

Penelo is just a nice girl and that's her only reason. That's why she is 4th (after Vanille) best female character.

She looked after and stood up for Vaan, even though she didn't have to. Went on the adventure and risked her life, even though she didn't have to.

Penelo's background is so simple and basically has almost nothing that really influences her (I mean, we know Penelo and Vaan were childhood friends but with Penelo's personality, it seemed like she was the one who started the friendship with Vaan and not the other way).

Tifa wasn't interested in Cloud until Cloud told Tifa how he would join SOLDIER.

Penelo, not knowing what she was getting into, did so much positive before any other female characters did.

Penelo's family took care of Vaan and Reks after they lost their family. I'd imagine it was Penelo who told her parents that “there are two homeless kids outside; maybe we should help them out” (Penolo says).

Meanwhile, in an alternative version of Final Fantasy 7 (where instead of Aerith being the chosen one and the last of her kind, it's Tifa).

Cloud: Aerith, you have to come and join us and help us! Your stats seem high. I have materia. Join me and Tifa and the others and lets fight bad guys.
Aerith: No can do. I am not the chosen one or the last of her kind. You guys don't need me. I am going to stay here and just be an NPC. You guys have fun though.
Cloud: But Aerith, your stats are really high! We need help! Help Aerith!
Aerith: You don't need me. Tifa is the chosen one. I'm just going to stand here and be an NPC.
Cloud: Nooo!! Well, I guess we'll get going then.
Aerith: See you guys. I am an NPC now.

Spoiler: show

Yep, if Aerith wasn't the chosen one, would she just be any other NPC? Because her positive motivations came only because she reacted to something (that is, she knows she is the chosen one that can stop Meteor).

First of all, Aerith only followed Cloud because Shinra was trying to capture Aerith (since she was a Cetra). However, if Aerith wasn't “the last of her kind”, would she follow or help Cloud? We don't know.

Later, Aerith actually only joined the others because she was a Cetra and wanted to know more about her heritage. Then later when she does good, she knows she is the only one that can stop Meteor.

However, if Aerith wasn't the chosen one, would Aerith help the team? We don't know because all of her actions were reactions to something. Aerith might have been just another NPC if she wasn't the chosen one. Who knows.

Penelo on the other hand, is no NPC. Penelo (despite not having any serious reasons or serious backstory) went out and tried to save the world. Even before things got serious in the story, Penelo helped out Vaan and did tons of positive stuff.

Spoiler: show

Although Penelo did end up getting captured (because she was trying to tell the soldiers to release Vaan and Balthier gave Penelo something that caused people to mistake Penelo was associated with Balthier), Penelo did positive before that. After Penelo was free, she was the one that asked Vaan and the others to let her join them and save the world. Penelo was also training every day (which is why her stats are high) and why Penelo is one of the strongest persons in the world.

In fact, I honestly do say Penelo is such an underrated character. Penelo could have ditched everyone but without any reason at all, she helps save the world. Penelo doesn't need her husband getting killed, her town getting destroyed, being mind controlled, being the chosen one, etc to do positive; she already does positive because she is simply a nice girl.

Sometimes I wonder if Penelo is the best female character ever. I guess Mumor is similar (Mumor doesn't need serious reasons). Rinoa/Lilisette (because they are the same person) does have serious reasons but they are “really serious” and kind of crazy. Rinoa/Lilisette does her plan alone and without much support, so that is why she wins over Mumor and Penelo.

Arciela is kind of a mix. Arciela is depicted to do positive stuff before any serious stuff + later when serious stuff occurs, she does sort of have to do it alone (though with the help of the player). So in that case, Arciela is like Penelo/Mumor + Rinoa/Lilisette in one.

Vanille is the greatest of them all though. Of course, Penelo is still close despite being fourth (after Vanille) best female character.

Lets go back to Vanille again for a bit and show why Vanille is the greatest and best female character of all time.

Lets compare Lightning first (and basically every other female character in the FF series):

Lightning:

Spoiler: show

1. Had to care for Serah because their parents died ("serious reasons"). Only cared for Hope because he had no where else to go (tried to ditch him once already).

So far, Lightning has only shown to do positive things because of cultural expectations and norms (basically, Lightning is shown to do positive only when she “had to do it”).

I mean if in Lightning was born in a place where ditching family was acceptable and maybe encouraged, would Lightning just ditch Serah? We don't know but we do know that Lightning only reacted to something (story wise, there's nothing that suggests Lightning was proactive in her backstory).

We see when no one was watching (when Lightning wasn't restricted by cultural expectations/norms), Lightning attempted to ditch Hope. She does eventually help Hope (only because her Eidolon was summoned and she sort of needed Hope to help) but Lightning only did it because she basically had to.

2. Is a soldier because it's her job.

3. When the Sanctum was moving the Pulse Vestige (with Serah in it) out, Lightning reacted. However, if Serah wasn't in the vestige in the first place (or Serah was never branded), would Lightning just not care about anyone being moved out of Cocoon or question it?

So far, we only see Lightning's positives motives because she had to (not because she wanted to, unlike Penelo).

4. Later in the series, Lightning arbitrarily becomes “the chosen one” and of course she might as well do whatever the chosen one is supposed to do.

Overall, there has never been a point in the story that shows Lightning did anything positive outside of cultural expectations or being told to do so. The time she tries to defy things is when Cocoon tried to ditch her. However her plan was to kill people (despite the fact that she never really explained or analyzed how this would make things better; Lightning just assumed that the president is evil).

Vanille:

Spoiler: show

1. While Vanille ends up being one of the chosen ones (alone with Fang), Vanille actually kept trying to defy cultural exceptions and do what she thought was right.

2. Lightning killed people and was fine with it (and she wasn't even sure if her plan would amount to anything). Vanille on the other hand, thought that completely taking down a place full of people (maybe innocent or maybe not) was wrong.

Vanille was actually kind of smart to know that she wasn't sure if the other side were bad guys or not. She played it safe by simply not wanting to kill. Defying expectations and cultural norms (and despite being pushed and influenced to do something), Vanille did what she thought was right.

The fact that Vanille holds on to her position (using the facts of the situation; again Vanille doesn't know she is in a JRPG where all the worlds problems can be solved by defeating some bad guy, so Vanille chose the best option) shows a lot.

If Vanille was part of any real life terrorist group (accidentally or for some other reason), she would stand up to them or try to stop them from doing whatever.

3. Vanille was basically all alone without any support in trying to do the right thing. She stuck with the group until Lightning revealed her plan to take down Cocoon, Vanille did try to talk Lightning out of it but it didn't work. Throughout several points of the story, Vanille waited for death because she knows they were the last Pulse l'Cie and the last Pulse fal'Cie (at least one that cares about taking down Cocoon) were gone. So Vanille's plan was a good one with her current knowledge of the situation (at that time, Vanille didn't know there was a main baddie to defeat).

4. Doesn't need "serious reasons" for doing good. Helps Hope even though, she didn't have to. Hope wanted to talk with Snow, Vanille helped Snow and kept trying to get Snow's attention (then encouraged Hope to go after Snow).

Despite the fact that basically everyone (throughout her entire life) keeps trying to push Vanille around, Vanille keeps holding on to her position to try to do the right thing.

Spoiler: show

Even the writers tried to make it seem like Vanille was the bad person. The game kind of ignores the situations; again, Vanille stayed with the group until Lightning decides to blow up the World Trade Center and go after the president because he's evil. That's when Vanille tries to get away from that and act out on her own plan (to die since she knew they were the last Pulse l'Cie). The story tries to make Vanille seem like the bad person, even though the plan actually made sense and would have worked (if were not for the fact that there was really an evil president controlling things, of course Vanille doesn't know she is an JRPG, so her plan makes sense from a RL perspective).

Just as they do find out there really is an evil person that they can defeat, that's when Vanille apologizes for running away and they should go after this evil bad guy. Of course before then, they had no idea that there was a bad guy in the first place). Later on when it seems like it's a good plan to do nothing again, Vanille suggests it again.

More reasons why Vanille is the best:

Spoiler: show

What also makes Vanille the best female character is also that she's in a game where everyone is trying to make her seem like the wrong person (which is actually realistic). Even the writers seem against her (as Vanille seems to never really get credit for anything positive in the story).

Most stories, even the ones where the hero is hated by everyone else, you have a sense that the writer (and a couple of characters) is on the side of the hero.

There are some cases where the perspective switches (you don't stick with one person), but even then, the writer seems to be on the side of that person.

What FFXIII does is try as hard as possible to make Vanille seem like the bad person all along. Regardless of whether you play as her or not, almost everyone is against her.

Vanille is all alone. No one else in the game is with her. Not even the writers are with her.

Spoiler: show

Whether intentional or not; sometimes the writers can be compared to programmers, they can try to "intend" for a code to work a certain way but the code will only read and executed one way, despite intentions; using that example, it really did seem like the writers did try to make Vanille be the bad person but despite that, she wasn't if you analyzed her choices.

Despite being all alone, Vanille does what she truly thinks is the best option throughout the entire game.

Spoiler: show

Vanille's choices and motivations make the most sense despite what everyone else says about her in game (if this wasn't some JRPG where all the world's problems can simply be solved by killing some floating monster in space while on a rock with random colors flashing). However, the story tries to make her seem like the bad guy. Everyone tries to make her seem like she is a coward.

It's true Vanille kept the fact she was a Pulse l'Cie a secret but it's irrelevant to the situation as she knows no more than the others (again, she doesn't know if there is a bad guy at all or not, and she doesn't know how to get rid of the brands). At that point, the morale of everyone was low and telling the others that she was originally from Pulse would just needlessly complicate the situation.

Vanille was fine with sticking with Serah's plan (to try to find a way to save Cocoon), however she abandons it (and does her own original plan) when Lightning recklessly wanted to destroy Eden. Lightning was also clearly being independent at that moment, so Lightning wouldn't listen to reason (Vanille did try to talk Lightning out of it but it didn't work).

After that, Vanille does her run away thing (they were the only Pulse l'Cie left and Anima was gone, which meant the last fal'Cie who could give brands to take down Cocoon are now gone; in other words, they were the last). Despite what Vanille said, Lightning wouldn't change her mind (Lightning at that point simply labeled everyone else as the bad guys without really analyzing the situation).

Vanille was basically the only one that made sense of the situation they were in. Lightning's plan makes no sense (in fact, Lightning later drops her initial plan and then, Vanille even suggests again they don't do anything which was always her plan), and in the end, it was Etro that had to save them.

So Vanille (not knowing that she is in a JRPG and there's always a way to win by defeating some bad guy), chose the best option by simply waiting for their deaths (instead of indiscriminately killing people like Lightning does). And Vanille attempts this despite basically everyone saying otherwise. Later when everyone reunites (Vanille stops "running"), they only fight because they finally know there really is a bad guy that they can simply defeat.

At the end of the game, Vanille + Fang saves everyone cause they believe in friendship (or something) and Vanille was wrong for trying to run away (even though it was clearly the superior choice and they only managed to do it cause Etro). At the end, Vanille clearly being wrong was rightified in her error.

And in the next game Lightning steals credit from Vanille for saving the world (at this point, it is never given back).

Also the third game, Lightning arbitrarily somehow becomes the main hero of all 3 games.

While Vanille may seem typical, when you compare her to every other female character in the FF series, Vanille is clearly the best (maybe Lilisette/Rinoa can compete with her but she was pushed to do good and she wasn't shown to defy what was expected of her to do good, we don't know if Lilisette/Rinoa would have otherwise).

Vanille is clearly the best female character ever. Vanille is uniquely presented in the game.

It's not Ashe, Terra, Celes, Aerith, Tifa, Lenna, Prishe (definitely not Prishe, Prishe didn't even do much and just bossed you around and stole the credit at the end of the game; even Lion did more than Prishe since Lion helped you escape from the Crystal Warriors while Prishe just throws you in front of danger to do all the work) or any of those other girls. It's Vanille. Unlike those other girls, Vanille had to deal with being alone and trying to make the best choices for her situation. Unlike the other girls, Vanille didn't just react to do good, she started doing good from the beginning. Finally, Vanille had to also face a lot (being trapped in a crystal form while still being conscious for 500+ years for example).

That's why Vanille is the best female character. Some may not like Vanille because she seems like a fan service only character (or some dislike her because of the way she acts) but if you analyze her, Vanille is clearly the best female character of the series (and maybe of all time too).

Overall, that's my topic on why Vanille, Arciela, Rinoa/Lilisette/Lilith/Ultimecia (because they are all the same person obviously), Mumor, and Penelo are the greatest female characters of all time.

[Zetanio]

k.

[Tyrath]

Um ok?

Edit: Damnit Zet.

[Ratatapa]

Vanille best female in one of the worst FF games

ok

[Zetanio]

Yeah, 13 was garbo.

[Tyrath]

13-2 best FF13 game. And Vanille isn't even in it. Must be a shitty character.

[Ratatapa]

13-2 best FF13 game. And Vanille isn't even in it. Must be a shitty character.

[Zetanio]

This should be a blog post tbh. It's good content. That would be the right forum for it anyway.

[Tyrath]

Fuck outta here Rata, you knew what I meant.

[Tyrath]

This should be a blog post tbh.

I disagree. He put Penelo on the list of greatest all time female characters.

[Grey Jorildyn]

What in the... Do you have ADD?

[Zetanio]

I disagree. He put Penelo on the list of greatest all time female characters.

Who cares? Let the comments debate it out.

[Tyrath]

Who cares? Let the comments debate it out.

Thats what I'm doing. GAWD.

[Zetanio]

THIS IS A THREAD TYRATH. YOU ARE POSTING NOT COMMENTING. JESUS FUCK.

[BerenTebogo]

What the actual fuck is this?

[Tyrath]

THIS IS A THREAD TYRATH. YOU ARE POSTING NOT COMMENTING. JESUS FUCK.

I post comments.

[Xno Kappa]

Wasn't she the one with death that you'd spam to kill those big ass turtles? Been a long ass time and never replayed the game again so can't remember.

[Deathbringer]

Wasn't she the one with death that you'd spam to kill those big ass turtles? Been a long ass time and never replayed the game again so can't remember.

Yup.....and omfg you made me remember those damn memories for that dark matter or wtf they were called for weapon upgrades

[Mertron]

i disagree, vanille is a very good character, but donkey kong is the best video game ever

[Xno Kappa]

I'm partial to green biker dude. Some gave some, others gave all. RIP