Nikki Seven / LBR vs Reddit

[Zetanio]

Everyone here needs to become PC Teddy Bears otherwise, no one will ever take us seriously

Please do. I worry about my feefee's

[Churchill]

who the fuck wants to catch flies

[Falisa]

You know, even BG will remove your post even if has a legitimate point behind it if you're being a raging douche bag in the text you use. Maybe not nowadays, but when I actually gave a shit about modding years ago it would have happened. Dunno why people are acting like this is some new and outrageous action.

[Elcura]

And BGs all the better for it.

Yep.

[Churchill]

BG also moderates you for having a differing opinion, not everywhere can be as great as 4chan.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Pump the goddamn brakes a second, hold on.

No one is arguing we need to turn society into a worldwide sarcastiball game, that's some slippery slope shit. There's a difference between criticism and personal attacks. Personal attacks have no place in civilized, informed discussion. When you bring personal attacks into critique, you derail the conversation in that direction. They polarize people, they don't strengthen your argument. Ad hominem is a logical fallacy, and logical fallacies are considered to weaken your argument. Criticism is valid and necessary, but when you mix it with needless shit-slinging it irrefutably does serve to invalidate your argument.

[Avarice]

The criticism didn't just evaporate into thin air because he said a string of obscenities; it doesn't work like that. The criticism is still there, and it's still valid. If you can't read between the lines to see the point that he's making because you're too emotionally attached to the fact that he doesn't respect you and is putting you down while getting his points across? Well, that's your own problem.

[Elcura]

All I'm seeing is criticisms are valid until I don't like them.

[Eurell]

When the lines you have to read between are 10 fucking paragraphs of crisco lubed anal rape, noones gonna give a shit to bother finding your actual points. Most of us are adults, if you want someone to care about what you say, quit the junior high act and grow the fuck up.

[Kipling]

If you write off criticism as invalid simply because it was a "personal attack" without even trying to explore what may have sparked someone to feel so passionately in the first place; you are a fool.

[Eanae]

The criticism didn't just evaporate into thin air because he said a string of obscenities; it doesn't work like that. The criticism is still there, and it's still valid. If you can't read between the lines to see the point that he's making because you're too emotionally attached to the fact that he doesn't respect you and is putting you down while getting his points across? Well, that's your own problem.

The obscenities alone are what got him banned. We're discussing the issues aren't we? Calling people hambeasts on r/ffxiv is going to get you banned no matter what and that's not going to change, sorry. Wrapping your offensiveness in critique doesn't make you immune.

[TheDirtyHobo]

If you can't read between the lines to see the point that he's making because you're too emotionally attached to the fact that he doesn't respect you and is putting you down while getting his points across? Well, that's your own problem.

Except it's literally not my own problem. If someone wants to rant and rave and blow of steam, great, they can do that. If they're making those points because they want the points to reach other people's ears, be considered, and possibly have their thoughts changed, then they are literally undermining their own goal. It's the reason why people marching around with "God hates fags" signs don't exactly convert any gay people into their path of righteousness, and even make those that were religious more skeptical.

If their concern is making a point, then they should be doing what they can to highlight their point, not obfuscate it. And that is their problem.

All I'm seeing is criticisms are valid until I don't like them.

More like criticisms are valid until they commit logical fallacies which invalidate them.

[Elcura]

It's the reason why people marching around with "God hates fags" signs don't exactly convert any gay people into their path of righteousness, and even make those that were religious more skeptical.

More like criticisms are valid until they commit logical fallacies which invalidate them.

God hates fags isn't a valid criticism though. So...lol

And no, if you were committing logical fallacies you probably didn't have a valid point anyway. Unless you think calling someone stupid is a logical fallacy cause...also lol

[Lucavi]

If you write off criticism as invalid simply because it was a "personal attack" without even trying to explore what may have sparked someone to feel so passionately in the first place; you are a fool.

Ehhhh... I dunno, man.

I get paid when I go to work and do my job. I ain't gettin' paid to sort through the shit-pile of 13-year-old insults to find the golden corn nugget of truth amidst the feces.

Some people like slinging shit, though. Other people like playing in shit. I guess it is what it is.

[TheDirtyHobo]

God hates fags isn't a valid criticism though. So...lol

And no, if you were committing logical fallacies you probably didn't have a valid point anyway. Unless you think calling someone stupid is a logical fallacy cause...also lol

A) It's a valid criticism if you subscribe to the belief that homosexuality is a sin, which the people who would be holding those signs obviously do.

B) Calling the person you're arguing with stupid literally is a logical fallacy. Not figuratively-literally, literally-literally. It's about as cut and dry a case of ad hominem as you could get.

[lbr_nika]

Okaaaaaaaaaaaay lol.

Hi! I'm Nika, token female host of Limit Break Radio and the, "end game correspondent" as I've been dubbed by my cohosts.

I find it hilariously funny that LBR has come under scrutiny, from something that -clearly- shed light on a poor moderation system, and has brought great discussion up within that community. Nikki's email may have been worded a bit strongly, but his points still stand...it's a shame that Reddit deleted the post along with any of the great posts that were made on that thread. But I digress.

We appreciate every single one of you who has listened to or checked out our show, even if this is your first time hearing about us. If we're not your cup of tea, totally cool. No harm, no foul if you don't want to become a subscriber. Please, go about your day.

I'd just like to clarify some things from my end, since it seems the thread has taken the approach of "I love how they're not around now that there's drama."

No, that's not true. We're here, we've seen it all, and we truly read and consider every piece of feedback we receive, whether it's given kindly or out of some kind of spite. There is a reason you feel that way, and that's cool! Feel free to love us, or hate us... Either way, thank you.

I want to (officially? I suppose) state what LBR is and or isn't and what we do/don't claim to be. We have NEVER claimed to be top tier players. We have never "pretended" to be super hardcore. Our policy is to be very open and honest with our listeners. No bullshit around here. We pride ourselves on being a podcast with an open platform for hosts as well as listeners (we do have call lines!) to voice and express their opinions. We are not afraid of the "hot button" issues in the community, as some other podcasts seem to be. And if you haven't picked up on the extreme sarcasm of our "get good" moniker, please re-calibrate your sarcasm detector.

Are we the hottest, most up-to-date source of information about the game? Absolutely not. But are we entertaining hosts with a bit of banter from people who genuinely enjoy playing this game? Absolutely!

If you don't troll around in expert roulettes by planting hate on your healers and causing wipes, I feel bad for you. These things (tome grinding, daily hunts, etc.) are so mundane and boring at this point that when I play with friends, it's a lot more fun trying new things and fucking around while doing the same 2 dungeons every day, over, and over, and over haha. In a random roulette, it would be a different story.

And although I am the most hardcore raider in the group, I do not have an obligation to be world first. Yes, I may be some kind of voice in the community if you want to call me that, but I do not need to be world first to have genuine opinions about a game that I love. I look up guides and strategies, and apply them in my personal raid group, but I am not part of this secret group of end gamers that apparently exists where everyone knows every group that has cleared end game raids on every server. If that actually exists, {Please invite me.}

And believe me, if end game raiding was a one person affair, let me tell you, I would've cleared that shit first week. But alas, it is not. Between one person having credit card troubles, one person having work scheduling issues, one person having boards and post-grad interviews, one person having a new born baby, and one person getting so burnt out and flat out quitting... I'm proud to say that we've managed to even kill AS2. I don't think you can discredit me or my place as the "end game correspondent" because I prefer to play with my friends who have real lives (as do I) rather than face-bashing and poop-socking my way to an AS3 and AS4 kill. So just.... kindly, shut up. Thank you.

In closing, say what you will about us or our opinions. We listen and we care, but if your aim is to make us butthurt and rage, joke's on you. We'll probably make fun of you on the next episode.

Toodles!!

~Nika <3 <3

[Elcura]

A) It's a valid criticism if you subscribe to the belief that homosexuality is a sin, which the people who would be holding those signs obviously do.

B) Calling the person you're arguing with stupid literally is a logical fallacy. Not figuratively-literally, literally-literally. It's about as cut and dry a case of ad hominem as you could get.

Only if your entire response is "you're stupid." If you're using insults to get around arguments, rather than to spice up a point you've already refuted. You goofed.

And points don't become valid because you believe in them. You can think they are, but if they aren't then there's nothing you can do about it.

[stripysox]

Sorry but I have a REAL LIFE and if you're better than me you're a no life loser neckbeard virgin who poops in a sock.
Btw I'm a girl irl, teehee!

Ok. You can fuck off now, whore.

[lbr_nika]

Ok. You can fuck off now, whore.

LMAO ok <3

[TheDirtyHobo]

Only if your entire response is "you're stupid." If you're using insults to get around arguments, rather than to spice up a point you've already refuted. You goofed.

And points don't become valid because you believe in them. You can think they are, but if they aren't then there's nothing you can do about it.

What you seem to be lacking is the understanding that people value things differently.

Yes, if the entirety of your argument is on one fallacy, your entire argument is invalid. Yes, the points that are valid by themselves are still valid. When you mix these valid and invalid points together, you're weakening your overall argument, making your statements less likely to be valued overall.

"The Bible states that homosexuality is a sin" is a fact. A person holding a sign obviously values this fact very, very highly to the point it informs their beliefs and opinions on things. Most people probably don't value it much. When signholder uses ad hominem arguments, people's value of that fact is likely to go down.