PC Principal thread

[Gredival]

Basically, based on the data the Wpost guy focused on and this guy's abstract I don't have confidence in his conclusion that the majority reason asians, as a collective whole, have seemingly achieved success over the last century is because of a "self-fulling prophecy bias" where whites began to think asians worked hard and where smart so they gave asians better jobs

The model minority myth is partially successful because it's a reinforcing narrative. By telling Asians that their vaunted place in society is due to the fact they don't act like Brown and Black people clamoring for "handouts"/"equality" it discourages Asians from advocating for themselves or standing in solidarity with other minorities. This in turn makes it easier to exploit them because they believe that sticking up for themselves is harmful so they will just accept "minor" inequities (see the data in the article regarding Asians getting less pay at the same levels of education). This mindset gets passed down in a household where children are taught that Black/Brown people are where they deserve to be but if we do well in school we won't be like that.

That's why there's a pretty sharp divide between generations and where you live the are very predictive about how you view civil rights as an Asian American. Younger generations with more diverse friends (i.e. you live outside of your local Chinatown) will care much more about these issues and are more likely to see themselves on the minority side rather than as a 3rd party or on the side of whites like the older generations do.

[Gredival]

And the stereotype of the lazy black student/worker is simply racism? And if america were as racist towards asians as blacks they too would be regarded as lazy students/workers? That is to say, on average blacks are just as studious and hard-working as asians?

I thought that was brought up already, but a big point in the article is that where Asians are in America today is vastly different compared to the past where we were seen as lazy, dirty, job-stealing, etc. like "other" minorities and that Asian progress wasn't the result of Asians just pulling on their bootstraps harder than Blacks and Mexicans.

I'm not going to deny there is higher levels of disenfranchisement among inner city Black communities than there are with Asian communities, which in turn feeds a lot of stereotypes and perceptions. But as AG pointed out in the Presidential thread, "it's almost like there are unique factors preventing the successful assimilation of people descended from African slaves vis-à-vis Polish, Irish, Jewish, and Asian immigrant groups"

Being given a chance makes a hell of a lot of difference, and as guardian pointed out, even when someone from a disadvantaged group does manage to "make it" resentment among members of the dominant group often cast a shadow over the person where others will question whether or not there was a better white male for the job and this are just there because of quotas.

[Galkaeater]

Well you can't have your cake and eat it too

[Thunder]

By telling Asians that their vaunted place in society is due to the fact they don't act like Brown and Black people clamoring for "handouts"/"equality" it discourages Asians from advocating for themselves or standing in solidarity with other minorities.

Isn't which one of those two things came first important? That is, if it's a part of asian culture to not complain about their situation and ask for handouts/equality or "act like brown people" then it would, rightfully so, create a narrative for asians that would help them succeed because they actually do those things. So people would say that their vaunted place in society is due to those facts, and rightfully so?

Is that crazy of me to think? Or is the argument (which is what I'm understand from greatguardian) that it IS that way because we had a large influx of majority (large majority) highly educated asian immigrants? So, the US got the best of the best and everyone as a result thinks asians are hardworking/smart when in reality there aren't any advantages of asian culture over american/etc. But what about the national test scores of those asian countries vs US in math/science? Could say that's more a result of school systems, and ok, but then what about majority asian public schools outperforming the majority white schools here in our own country? Teachers in all of these places are fudging the ways in which they test/teach because of the asian myth? Coincidentally (or not really, I guess), this Hilgar guy (the one whose research paper the Wpost article is based on) has written about stuff like that before

That's why there's a pretty sharp divide between generations and where you live the are very predictive about how you view civil rights as an Asian American. Younger generations with more diverse friends (i.e. you live outside of your local Chinatown) will care much more about these issues and are more likely to see themselves on the minority side rather than as a 3rd party or on the side of whites like the older generations do.

Could it be that those later generations simply moved farther and farther away from the asian culture and are more american? So, to be consistent with the above and maybe make light of the discussion: they act more like brown and black people clamoring for "handouts"/"equality"

[SephYuyX]

Typical group of people getting their feefees hurt over this.
http://observer.com/2016/11/how-the-...binary-people/

[Salodin]

Truth hurts tho

[Zetanio]

Yep. People don't like looking in the mirror.

[tyven]

anyone have some stats handy for the 31 different gender types? I'm just wondering how accurate "we're out here dying and you cant bite your tongue?" is. Like is it it more dangerous to be a pangender than to be black around police?

[Zetanio]

anyone have some stats handy for the 31 different gender types? I'm just wondering how accurate "we're out here dying and you cant bite your tongue?" is. Like is it it more dangerous to be a pangender than to be black around police?

Only if you are also black.

Basically being black is the problem.

Police don't give a fuck about trans people or any other flavor of sexuality unless they are also a person of color.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Get with the times, tinder. Gender is a spectrum, not a septentricenary.

[Zetanio]

The stats I saw.

http://www.advocate.com/transgender/...so-far-us-2015

21 trans people killed.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-4

15,969 murders or "nonnegligent manslaughter"

(100/15,696)*21

0.13% of murders are of trans folks.

[Salodin]

Now how much of the population is trans?

[Zetanio]

No actual numbers but the "estimate" is 1.4 million which is .6% of the population.

[archibaldcrane]

And that doesn't mean that all those people are actively living as their gender identity - many would be like, say, Bruce Jenner circa 5+ years ago.

[Zetanio]

Even if 4 times as many people are living secretly or whatever, still brings them to exactly representative of their population %.

[dasva]

Even if there was a point with that line there is a huge difference between believing you are another gender or something and thinking the universe is a gender and it's yours or that it changes daily or the 37 flavors. The first will probably be taken somewhat seriously for better or worse the others will get you laughed and mocked at because you've gone full potato

[archibaldcrane]

Even if 4 times as many people are living secretly or whatever, still brings them to exactly representative of their population %.

Well, the 21 was just trans women of course.

And women are only 22ish% of murder victims anyway.

[Zetanio]

Well, the 21 was just trans women of course.

And women are only 22ish% of murder victims anyway.

Don't fucking lump them in with that ciscum.

Jesus.

[NynJa]

And that doesn't mean that all those people are actively living as their gender identity - many would be like, say, Bruce Jenner circa 5+ years ago.

If Tommy secretly wishes to be called Tammy, but has not told anyone and doesnt go out in public as Tammy, if he is killed in the street, is that a transgender killed or a male killed?

[Zetanio]

If Tommy secretly wishes to be called Tammy, but has not told anyone and doesnt go out in public as Tammy, if he is killed in the street, is that a transgender killed or a male killed?

Does a bear shit in the woods?