PC Principal thread

[dasva]

Excellent. I'm glad we can agree we can just punch all the bad people we don't like. I've grown kind of tired of this America that doesn't try to solve everything with violence. Can we go back to punching commies across the globe and being the best again?

[Zetanio]

No.

[Salodin]

Yup, totally punching all the Trump officials I don't agree with.

Or maybe, just maybe, white supremacists have a storied history that gives context to why we punch them, and not just every American we disagree with.

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[Day]

yall nerds gotta leave the house to punch someone

[Fondue]

Our penal codes are set up to provide disincentives for antisocial behaviors (like violence).

Although there might be some correlations, our penal codes are not set up to define ethical behavior. You can break the law while acting ethically. In fact, there may be times when another person is behaving legally, but unethically, and someone else could behave ethically, but illegally, to correct it. (Ex. punching racists) If you're willing to do the time, then go ahead and do the crime. Jury nullification exists for a reason, so if your jury of neighbors agrees with your reasoning then they can acquit you even if they think you're guilty.

If society thinks that a certain type of unacceptable vigilante justice is becoming too common (Ex. lynchings, systematic disenfranchisement, taking a racist's gym membership, etc.), then it's free to create more laws or change how the laws are enforced to correct it. The bitchy back and forth debate of the last few pages is a small portion of society (BG) coming to grips with the most recent incarnation of vigilante justice and deciding whether action should be taken.


I vote no, because fuck this guy. I hope he ends up in federal pound me in the ass prison.

PS. I guess safe spacers should start having meetings at the gym because apparently conservatives agree that should be a safe space for all ideologies. >^,^<

I'm glad two courageous heros, Saïd and Chérif Kouachi, had the balls to do the crime and pay the time for their ethical rectification of charlie hebdo >^,^<

[Tokitoki]

yall nerds gotta leave the house to punch someone

Postin' from work. What now?

[dasva]

yall nerds gotta leave the house to punch someone

I'm sure there is an ap for me to uber someone to punch to come to my house. If not there's a fortune to be made

[Zetanio]

Same.

[Byrthnoth]

I'm glad two courageous heros, Saïd and Chérif Kouachi, had the balls to do the crime and pay the time for their ethical rectification of charlie hebdo >^,^<

Well, didn't they? Both they and the cartoonists cast their votes for how society should be. France's success or failure to implement policies that deter such behavior in the future determines whether or not society rejected their opinions.

In a similar example that doesn't end in deterring policies, we regularly have people who seem to think that it's okay to kill a lot of people in the US as long as you also kill yourself. You can kill coworkers, kids, people at gay nightclubs, etc. As long as the body count includes you at the end, that seems to be a socially acceptable outcome in the US.

If we've already reached consensus on the above, does the "why?" actually matter?

[Deftscythe]

In a similar example that doesn't end in deterring policies, we regularly have people who seem to think that it's okay to kill a lot of people in the US as long as you also kill yourself. You can kill coworkers, kids, people at gay nightclubs, etc. As long as the body count includes you at the end, that seems to be a socially acceptable outcome in the US.

If we've already reached consensus on the above, does the "why?" actually matter?

What? I've never seen that attitude. Usually the reactions I see to such events are "I hope they burn in hell" or "I wish we could bring them back to kill them again" and other equally extreme sentiments.

[dasva]

He's probably trying to segue into gun control

[Byrthnoth]

What? I've never seen that attitude. Usually the reactions I see to such events are "I hope they burn in hell" or "I wish we could bring them back to kill them again" and other equally extreme sentiments.

Talk is cheap. I haven't seen any actions that contradict that view.

You can actually generalize it further. Lets look at the case of Dylann Roof. He's the white supremacist who shot up a black church (Charleston, SC) in 2015. Both South Carolina and the country have failed to take steps to 1) restrict gun ownership 2) increase mental health funding 3) attempt to tamp down white supremacy. If anything, the fires of white supremacy are burning hotter than they have in decades.

So, I'd say that society views Dylann Roof's shooting spree as an acceptable casualty within the current system.

[Day]

edit: wrong thread fml

[Deftscythe]

You can actually generalize it further. Lets look at the case of Dylann Roof. He's the white supremacist who shot up a black church (Charleston, SC) in 2015. Both South Carolina and the country have failed to take steps to 1) restrict gun ownership 2) increase mental health funding 3) attempt to tamp down white supremacy. If anything, the fires of white supremacy are burning hotter than they have in decades.

Shooting sprees in general are acceptable *to our legislators* as long as that sweet gun lobby money keeps coming in and fox news keeps scaring enough of their base. That doesn't mean it's acceptable in society nor is a shooting spree any more or less acceptable if the perpetrator offs themselves.

[Vandalhart]

Aside from enacting laws and restrictions on the rest of the population who didn't commit the crime, I'm not sure what you're expecting to happen. The criminal is dead, there's not really anyone to punish unless it's a group attack?

The mental health funding being increased is a good idea, but would anyone actually partake of it?

[Salodin]

Well if you say you care about something and then do something (or nothing) to prevent it from happening again, do you really care about it as much as you think you do?

20 kids got shot up in a school and no changes happened regarding gun control. Yeah, I'd say people don't care about (other peoples) kids all that much.

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[dasva]

The mental health funding being increased is a good idea, but would anyone actually partake of it?

At first I'm sure there would still be those that continue to not seek it but I'd imagine the society that put more of a focus on it's importance would see a lessening of the stigma associated with it that is all too often the cause of people being unwilling to see help or even see that there is a problem. Certainly will take time to really get the ball rolling but it's a serious long term solution to the root causes of many societal ills

[Byrthnoth]

Humans, particularly the dumb ones, are bad at longterm thinking. The evidence that punishment severity reduces crime is something between weak and nonexistent. For instance, here is a study that looked at the probability of committing a crime before/after losing legal minor status (18th birthday.) Punishment severity jumps, but probability of committing a crime remains essentially constant. So it effectively doesn't matter that there's no one left to punish. Punishment doesn't do shit to lower the crime rates anyway.


We need to focus on prevention and shaping society to avoid tragedies.

Unfortunately for us, humans, particularly the dumb ones, are bad at longterm thinking.

[Day]

ooh god disregard

[Jefe]

Humans, particularly the dumb ones, are bad at longterm thinking. The evidence that punishment severity reduces crime is something between weak and nonexistent. For instance, here is a study that looked at the probability of committing a crime before/after losing legal minor status (18th birthday.) Punishment severity jumps, but probability of committing a crime remains essentially constant. So it effectively doesn't matter that there's no one left to punish. Punishment doesn't do shit to lower the crime rates anyway.

You are disregarding and important variable in the equation. Punishment is in place to defuse further confrontation between parties involved. Therefore, decreasing/preventing future violent acts.