PC Principal thread

[Churchill]

Your sense of nobility in regards to employment means you either have a job that actually means something to you, or you are the kind of person I just do not understand. Either way, good luck to you sir. Me, I'll take the hour off in exchange for the respect of people who mean nothing to me and an employer who would gladly shove me on the streets and replace me with a small Indian child if their spreadsheets told them it would be more cost-efficient.

Having personal honor and accountability, or the lack thereof, is exactly what started this conversation.

How someone treats you is directly tied to what they think of you so it doesn't make sense either way.

Besides, it's always the people who say "I don't care what people think about me!" who care the most lol

What someone thinks of you and how they treat you are almost never the same, do you even humanity.

Further, it's even less attributable in cases where you have different echelons of workers. People are often nice to you because you're the boss, or because you're not fat, or because you're pretty.

Regardless, the best type of leadership is one where you lead by example; a good example is to not be a worthless shit wasting an hour of your company's time a week while other people look at you knowing you are being a worthless shit.

[Blubbartron]

Yeah, gotta side against Churchill on this point. I would frequently take a break from what I was working on to shoot the shit with colleagues. Sometimes work topics snuck into the conversations, but oftentimes they didn't. For something that requires mental focus and creativity like programming, sometimes you need to just get out of your head after a while. Staring at the same problem for 3 hours straight is not productive. That's how you burn out faster while simultaneously solving fewer problems with lower quality.

My issue wasn't with people taking time to fuck off at work, but that they were fucking off by giving themselves extra work. When you're creating ideas, planning, and prioritizing, you aren't recuperating from the stresses of the job. You're doing work that isn't productive to the company, but telling them it is productive, because you have full confidence that if they ever came down on you you could drum up a fallacious discrimination lawsuit.

[NynJa]

This isn't a discussion about what people might be doing in these groups, but what they are meant for. Jesus christ.

And what are they meant for then? Im a priviledged white cis scum shitlord, educate me on what a LGBT meeting once a week on the clock is about?

[Jaybar]

And what are they meant for then? Im a priviledged white cis scum shitlord, educate me on what a LGBT meeting once a week on the clock is about?

It makes sense for there to be LBGT groups of your workers at work because:
1) LBGT people are uncommon, so they are unlikely to find each other without such a group
2) Work is somewhere they all go, so it's a convenient place to meet
3) LBGT people face/present different social challenges than others that your company and employees might not be prepared to deal with. Having such a group can help them identify systemic problems/offenders earlier and report them instead of it going undetected for 10 years and culminating in a big, expensive, class action lawsuit.

The reason to let it be on the clock is to encourage participation. No one wants to meet at 4-5 on a Wednesday. Plus, see #1. You're not losing that much productivity when your 4% of your workers get together for an hour.

Reading the thread is hard work, better just spur the conversation towards something more vitriolic.

[NynJa]

And that didnt answer my question. Why do they need an hour every week to have a private buddy buddy time on the companys clock?

They do this so they can "discuss ways to make the rest of the company understand and not offend us"...while alienating themselves from the rest of the company? That makes sense?!?

Like i asked before, how much shit can happen in the 40 hours they MAYBE spend together that requires an hour long meeting to discuss how the other workers are shitlords and offending them?

[Yuri-G]

Having personal honor and accountability, or the lack thereof, is exactly what started this conversation.

When I'm at work, I display exactly as much personal honor and accountability as my corporate overlords have displayed toward me. Which is, incidentally, the #1 reason I'm going to school part-time and working full-time even though it's stressful as shit. Because I have no idea what it's like to work in a place where achieving your personal best doesn't feel like you're being milked by corporate overlords and paying for some CEO's baby's golden tonka truck collection through your blood sweat and tears. I am working toward escaping that but right now I work in a place that - as I said - would kick me to the curb if the cost-benefit analysis told them to do so, and they wouldn't think twice about it. I do my best to maintain honor and accountability to myself here, but that's as far as it goes. This doesn't mean I slack off, it just means I don't kill myself every minute of every hour I spend here on the clock out of some misguided sense of obligation. I do my job, I do it well, and that's quite enough for me to sleep well at night.


As for NynJa, I don't come here a lot but I get the sense that he's not taken seriously and/or is frequently found to be trolling? So not sure if serious.

[Zetanio]

When I'm at work, I display exactly as much personal honor and accountability as my corporate overlords have displayed toward me. Which is, incidentally, the #1 reason I'm going to school part-time and working full-time even though it's stressful as shit. Because I have no idea what it's like to work in a place where achieving your personal best doesn't feel like you're being milked by corporate overlords and paying for some CEO's baby's golden tonka truck collection through your blood sweat and tears. I am working toward escaping that but right now I work in a place that - as I said - would kick me to the curb if the cost-benefit analysis told them to do so, and they wouldn't think twice about it. I do my best to maintain honor and accountability to myself here, but that's as far as it goes. This doesn't mean I slack off, it just means I don't kill myself every minute of every hour I spend here on the clock out of some misguided sense of obligation. I do my job, I do it well, and that's quite enough for me to sleep well at night.


As for NynJa, I don't come here a lot but I get the sense that he's not taken seriously and/or is frequently found to be trolling? So not sure if serious.

He just doesn't get it. Don't bother.

[NynJa]

As for NynJa, I don't come here a lot but I get the sense that he's not taken seriously and/or is frequently found to be trolling? So not sure if serious.

Once again
Explain it if im a stupid ignorant priviledged white cis scum shitlord.

WHY does the LGBT community need a weekly meeting on the companys dime? Explain it instead of just saying "lol troll" or pussyfooting around it without answering like the guy before did. His answer explained NOTHING.

[Ksandra]

Once again
Explain it if im a stupid ignorant priviledged white cis scum shitlord.

WHY does the LGBT community need a weekly meeting on the companys dime? Explain it instead of just saying "lol troll" or pussyfooting around it without answering like the guy before did. His answer explained NOTHING.

Because humanity can be more than just the bottom dollar you stupid ignorant priviledged white cis scum shitlord.

[NynJa]

How is that humanity?!? You go to work to do your job and get paid. Thats all. Did i miss the memo where youre supposed to go to work and NOT do the job that youre assigned to do? If co-workers are being assholes and making you feel uncomofrtable, then go to the boss/HR and make a complaint.

Can i have a meeting every week with my nerdy co-workers to play ps4? It helps me unstress and its the only time i see them.

[Ksandra]

How is that humanity?!?

Because your caring for your fellow human beings by allowing them to connect to others who deal with the same struggles they do. Considering the fact it's not so easy to meet and connect compared to others. A happy worker is a more productive worker. Fuck, that's why workers at places like Costco and In 'n Out actually smile at you. Because the company keeps them happy.

[NynJa]

And once again:
They have to do that at work? Wouldnt it make MORE sense to meet out of work, so person A and his/her few LGBT friends can network with person B and his/her LGBT friends and expand their community of friends?

Derp


Theyre just continuing to alienate themselves by this approach. Instead of wanting to be part of the whole community, theyre excluding themselves...and theyre also getting paid to dick around while someone else is actually working at that time (see:afforementionned smoke breaks)

[Ksandra]

And once again:
They have to do that at work? Wouldnt it make MORE sense to meet out of work, so person A and his/her few LGBT friends can network with person B and his/her LGBT friends and expand their community of friends?

Derp

Why can't they do both?

[Salodin]

Why can't nynja, an admitted stupid ignorant priviledged white cis scum shitlord, also get weekly paid time for similar stress relieving activities?

[Marootsoobutsu]

No matter how much I've ever hated my job, I treat it as if I absolutely love the hell out of it. I smile, not because it's a reflection of my job, but because it's a reflection of me. I do my absolute best, not so that the Corporate Overlords can turn another buck, but because what I get out of a job is more than just a pay check. Integrity, for me, isn't just doing good enough-- it's doing my best.

And I have NEVER been in a job for more than 6 months without being offered a promotion, and the only jobs I've ever been in for more than a month without getting a raise were union jobs that forbade it. Honestly, I'm far more disincentivized working for unions than I am for corporations: at least in a corporation, I can plead my own merits and successes, and can ask for guidance for how to do more of what they want.

I don't feel entitled to anything but safety at a work place, and to make sure my contract is adhered to. It's not a place for my personal life to matter at *all*. I don't take pictures of my kids, or my wife. I'm there to work. I don't chat it up with my co-workers during work hours, and if I want to have a conversation, it's during a break or at lunch-- and that seems ample time to have that LBGQT meeting. Lunch hour, bring in a pizza, chat it up. If you have legitimate discrimination concerns (by which I mean lower pay, preferential project assignment, lower/higher priority on overtime, lack of promotions, not "I don't feel like I'm one of the guys/gals"), then bring it up to HR on company time, since that's a company issue. If four or five or fifty of you have that issue-- bring it up then. Great. But honestly, in my last three jobs, I couldn't tell you if a single coworker of mine was married, had children, was straight, gay, whatever, because it didn't matter. All that mattered to me was if they were doing their job, if I was getting in trouble for them NOT doing their job, and if I had to/got to work overtime because they didn't do their job. I don't care about ANYTHING else from my coworkers. Because work isn't social hour, and I should only be there so long as I am more valuable to my employer than my not being there is.

You want to care for your fellow human being? Volunteer *your* time. If you don't care enough about the issue to find an hour after work to meet, you don't care enough about the issue for me to pick up your slack. If it's an issue you care about, volunteer. If it's an issue you think needs more attention, volunteer, or get a second job. Approach me at my lunch hour and see if I'll help out; I very often have. But don't demand special treatment, and then decry it when those who don't need or want that handholding get promoted ahead-- because I'm simply a more valuable employee than you will be. I don't need the company to keep me happy; I keep me happy. I just need the company to honor its contract to me, and I'm good.

[Thunder]

No matter how much I've ever hated my job, I treat it as if I absolutely love the hell out of it. I smile, not because it's a reflection of my job, but because it's a reflection of me. I do my absolute best, not so that the Corporate Overlords can turn another buck, but because what I get out of a job is more than just a pay check. Integrity, for me, isn't just doing good enough-- it's doing my best.

And I have NEVER been in a job for more than 6 months without being offered a promotion, and the only jobs I've ever been in for more than a month without getting a raise were union jobs that forbade it. Honestly, I'm far more disincentivized working for unions than I am for corporations: at least in a corporation, I can plead my own merits and successes, and can ask for guidance for how to do more of what they want.

I don't feel entitled to anything but safety at a work place, and to make sure my contract is adhered to. It's not a place for my personal life to matter at *all*. I don't take pictures of my kids, or my wife. I'm there to work. I don't chat it up with my co-workers during work hours, and if I want to have a conversation, it's during a break or at lunch-- and that seems ample time to have that LBGQT meeting. Lunch hour, bring in a pizza, chat it up. If you have legitimate discrimination concerns (by which I mean lower pay, preferential project assignment, lower/higher priority on overtime, lack of promotions, not "I don't feel like I'm one of the guys/gals"), then bring it up to HR on company time, since that's a company issue. If four or five or fifty of you have that issue-- bring it up then. Great. But honestly, in my last three jobs, I couldn't tell you if a single coworker of mine was married, had children, was straight, gay, whatever, because it didn't matter. All that mattered to me was if they were doing their job, if I was getting in trouble for them NOT doing their job, and if I had to/got to work overtime because they didn't do their job. I don't care about ANYTHING else from my coworkers. Because work isn't social hour, and I should only be there so long as I am more valuable to my employer than my not being there is.

You want to care for your fellow human being? Volunteer *your* time. If you don't care enough about the issue to find an hour after work to meet, you don't care enough about the issue for me to pick up your slack. If it's an issue you care about, volunteer. If it's an issue you think needs more attention, volunteer, or get a second job. Approach me at my lunch hour and see if I'll help out; I very often have. But don't demand special treatment, and then decry it when those who don't need or want that handholding get promoted ahead-- because I'm simply a more valuable employee than you will be. I don't need the company to keep me happy; I keep me happy. I just need the company to honor its contract to me, and I'm good.

press f to pay respect

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[NynJa]

Because humanity can be more than just the bottom dollar you stupid ignorant priviledged white cis scum shitlord.

Since you brought this up

Where is the "humanity" when grad students are working 80 hours a week as interns, bending over backwards hoping to get that job?

Or does humanity not apply to them?

[Seraph]

People demand special treatment and proceed to get upset because they get called out on getting special treatment. If we are going to have 'equal pay' type discussions, I don't want to hear people bellyache that they need a special on the clock social hour because they are special snowflakes.

In my line of work, most people (who are not total pieces of shit) don't care if someone is different than the others. They care that they are a team player, and getting their work done in a reasonable fashion without being a completely insufferable prick. Socializing is a moderate part of the job, and social currency goes a great way in helping get things accomplished faster than otherwise possible. Everyone does a moderate level of talking/socializing/bullshitting/side discussions and that is often okay. I have seen a large box of donuts and several coffees do what no amount of management badgering and threats could ever accomplish, multiple times.

With that said, LBGT power hour seems to blur the line of business and personal time a tad too much in my opinion. If people want to regularly discuss personal matters over lunch, or off the clock, be my guest. Your personal life is a very important thing, no doubt about that. The discussion here though, is the exact opposite of teamwork and harmony. It is an 'Us vs Them' philosophy and it is an 'I Deserve This!' mentality, and those things never end well.

[NynJa]

No matter how much I've ever hated my job, I treat it as if I absolutely love the hell out of it. I smile, not because it's a reflection of my job, but because it's a reflection of me. I do my absolute best, not so that the Corporate Overlords can turn another buck, but because what I get out of a job is more than just a pay check. Integrity, for me, isn't just doing good enough-- it's doing my best.

And I have NEVER been in a job for more than 6 months without being offered a promotion, and the only jobs I've ever been in for more than a month without getting a raise were union jobs that forbade it. Honestly, I'm far more disincentivized working for unions than I am for corporations: at least in a corporation, I can plead my own merits and successes, and can ask for guidance for how to do more of what they want.

I don't feel entitled to anything but safety at a work place, and to make sure my contract is adhered to. It's not a place for my personal life to matter at *all*. I don't take pictures of my kids, or my wife. I'm there to work. I don't chat it up with my co-workers during work hours, and if I want to have a conversation, it's during a break or at lunch-- and that seems ample time to have that LBGQT meeting. Lunch hour, bring in a pizza, chat it up. If you have legitimate discrimination concerns (by which I mean lower pay, preferential project assignment, lower/higher priority on overtime, lack of promotions, not "I don't feel like I'm one of the guys/gals"), then bring it up to HR on company time, since that's a company issue. If four or five or fifty of you have that issue-- bring it up then. Great. But honestly, in my last three jobs, I couldn't tell you if a single coworker of mine was married, had children, was straight, gay, whatever, because it didn't matter. All that mattered to me was if they were doing their job, if I was getting in trouble for them NOT doing their job, and if I had to/got to work overtime because they didn't do their job. I don't care about ANYTHING else from my coworkers. Because work isn't social hour, and I should only be there so long as I am more valuable to my employer than my not being there is.

You want to care for your fellow human being? Volunteer *your* time. If you don't care enough about the issue to find an hour after work to meet, you don't care enough about the issue for me to pick up your slack. If it's an issue you care about, volunteer. If it's an issue you think needs more attention, volunteer, or get a second job. Approach me at my lunch hour and see if I'll help out; I very often have. But don't demand special treatment, and then decry it when those who don't need or want that handholding get promoted ahead-- because I'm simply a more valuable employee than you will be. I don't need the company to keep me happy; I keep me happy. I just need the company to honor its contract to me, and I'm good.

You forgot to drop the mic

[Ksandra]

Since you brought this up

Where is the "humanity" when grad students are working 80 hours a week as interns, bending over backwards hoping to get that job?

Or does humanity not apply to them?

Why not both?

You know I have been fully supporting college athletes getting paid right?

Just because we are commenting on this thread doesn't mean this is the ONLY thing we care about.