PC Principal thread

[Ksandra]

Now look who's being obtuse. If it's so stupid why are you the one bringing reasons for dress requirements into a discussion that had been about how feasible/practical they are?

I bring it up because they don't want to be denied as part of their dress requirement. I thought that was obvious.

But since you decided to whoosh harder than Macross let's go down that path. No Military uniform/grooming are not for safety reasons. Certain jobs and/or commands it can be and they can always make them stricter for reasons such as that but as a whole it's more of a conformity and appearance professionalism

I stand corrected on that. I heard they were to make sure they don't get caught on wire n' such.

With that said women at least can now wear dreads in the military, [edit] to clarify article is about army, not sure about other branches[/edit] so I am not really concerned about them though I would like men to be able to, too, and hope to that extends to all branches eventually.

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/n...emale-soldiers

With that said, it makes sense as shit to allow dreads in the military. Why would you want your soldiers spending two hours getting their hair to the military's clean standards? Makes no sense.

Now let's say that receptionist. Varies highly from job to job but generally speaking is in a position to be the first person someone walking into an organization or business sees. A very large part of their job generally is image. They want/need to convey a certain image as such they have certain requirements.

Yes, and that image is what white people have deemed to look professional.

[Zetanio]

After all of this discussion, dreads are still super duper gross.

[Seha]

If you are one of those people that shouts "racism doesn't exist anymore" then I will find the get out frog for you. If you are one of those people who believe racism still exists, stop trying to deny obvious incidents of racism because you don't like something.

Neither of those is right. You're a worthless person to talk to if all you do is make assumptions about what others around you believe without even bothering to inquire.

[Ksandra]

Also, request to stop comparing black hair to tattoos because:

No one is born with tattoos.

And making black people hair act like white people hair is not a just an hour at the shop and then lasts forever.

[Andalusian girls]

[Ksandra]

[thetruepandagod]

This is slowly turning into the weird sexual habits thread.


wtg Bg.



Onto other ranting topics, I still can't handle the culture appropriation stuff, though I was glad to get some better insight yesterday on it. The hair braid/dreads shit seems to keep popping up on my fb feed and this is what I have finally understood about that particular topic:

It's bitterness. And it's justifiable bitterness, but lashing out in the wrong way.

On the surface, you'll see people arguing about it being black culture, which as many point out, is dumb as it has never been just a black culture style. And that's basically the only type of argument I've seen towards hair for forever and makes my eyes want to roll out of their head.

Finally I saw the real root (no pun intended) of the problem. The frustration is not that non-blacks wear braids/dreads. It's that black people are looked on negatively for wearing braids/dreads, whereas white people are looked on as being trendy. And that black people feel they are denied jobs if they wear them (I have no citation to back that up, but I honestly don't doubt it). And so they are lashing out that they do not get the same reaction as white people to wearing braids/dreads. Which is compounded by the fact that many have hair types that are just a nightmare to take care of, and is easily solved by those hairstyles.

That, I find, to be an extremely legitimate grievance. I am glad to really get a sense of what they are frustrated about. And I am really sad that they have that as a hurdle towards jobs/acceptance/etc..


With all that being said, the answer, imo, is not to then tell white people they can't wear dreads/braids. This is not an issue of cultural appropriation, but an issue of racism (towards those getting denied jobs, not towards those that wear dreads/braids). Be upset at those that hire people, not upset at people who happen to wear the same hairstyle. I do get the frustration, I honestly do, but they are blaming the wrong people.


Disclaimer: I have no horse in this race as I feel like I would look like a complete moron with braids/dreads, so have no desire to do it myself. I actually don't even think my hair can dread.

I believe this is not the case.

Understand that what you are saying smells Jim Crowish. And I am not saying that to attack you, but educate you.

Let's be realistic, please.

Don't ask of others what you can't do yourself.

[Ksandra]

Don't ask of others what you can't do yourself.

Keep in mind that the first bold you gave is the general perception I see from black people who are upset when white people wear braids/dreads. IE.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0b23e3ce3f27b

In the professional world and in academia, having this so-called “unkempt” hair is often a liability. Meanwhile, colorful or elaborate weaves are called “ghetto” and “ratchet.” On the flip side, white women with unnaturally colored hair or offbeat styles are deemed quirky and alternative — a double standard to say the least.

So unless you can prove that there aren't black people who feel that way, then I don't know what was the problem with that bolded part.

As to the second. Fine. Here's something to back it up:

https://perception.org/wp-content/up...ingsReport.pdf


And I'm not touching on the Jim crow complaint unless you have a solid counter as to why it's ok to tell them to "just work elsewhere if they don't want to wear white hairstyles."

[GoggleHead]

Everyone has to make sacrifices for employment. It's your problem, it's your responsibility, own up to it like a fucking adult or find an alternate route just like every other person in society.

I love how this thread started with collecting external links to crazy shit but now the calls are coming from inside the house. Good work fam.

[NynJa]

As Annah Anti-Palindrome (a white women who used to wear dreadlocks) observed on Everyday Feminism,"Without any regard to personal qualifications, even with an incarceration record and no college education, I was often given responsibilities [at work] that put me in positions of authority over my co-workers of color. Despite my... appearance, I enjoyed a level of tolerance from authority figures and society at large that can only be attributed to my whiteness. "

Or perhaps Annah Anti-Palindrome had seniority over her "co-workers of color" by being tenured as an employee longer? WHO KNOWS, she just automatically resorted to "my white privilege"

Its also worth noting that the author you are citing cited someone else who writes shit like this:

I let my leg and armpit hair grow long, and I let the hair on my head spiral into a nest of cords, matts, and tangles (a hairdo I would later ignorantly and appropriatively refer to as dreadlocks).

I ran away from home – started hitchhiking all over the country, going to feminist music festivals, entrenching myself amidst the company of other (mostly white) grrrls who were shirking their feminine hygiene routines (shaving, bathing, hair combing, general beauty maintenance regimens of all types, really) in order to really “stick it to the patriarchy.” (It was a thing, okay?)

In navigating through a predominantly white, feminist punk subculture, I never gave a second thought to whether wearing my hair in dreadlocks was offensive — at least to any one other than to The Patriarchy.

Personally, I dont give a shit if your hair is in dreadlocks or not.

People were constantly making comments under their breath when they passed me about “cultural appropriation” – I had no idea what that meant.
I read them and learned more about the history and symbolism of dreadlocks in the US in context to black folk’s resistance movements against white supremacy. I learned that black folks in the US with dreadlocks are not seen as “quirky” or “alternative,” but as “dangerous” and “militant”.

OOPS
Dreadlocks originated from India or Egypt
Is there any rage about black people culturally appropriating from India or Egypt? Or is this another case of "only white people can culturally appropriate"?

Yes, it’s true that dreadlocks are worn in all different cultures around the world, but the context for which they are worn in the US is explicitly rooted in black folks’ (Rastafarians specifically) symbolic resistance to white supremacy.

So white people in the US wear their hair in dreadlocks specifically to shit on Rastafarians according to this idiot.

[Salodin]

I still don't understand how a race can own a style of hair. What is the equivalent for the other races? What can black people not culturally appropriate because it hurts the feelings of the whiteys?

[Byrthnoth]

Y'all have been talking about this for a while and no one has pointed out that tight curls are relatively uncommon in nature. Think about everything with hair in the world and then think about stereotypical black hair. It's pretty unique.

Such hair calls for very different treatment, hairstyles, etc, and it makes sense that black culture would have hang-ups about hair. Because the hairstyles and treatment are so unique, it also makes sense that other cultures using those hairstyle developed specifically for this very unique type of hair would be seen as appropriation. I mean, your hair doesn't even do that. Heck, even "jewfros" lack the puff of an afro.

What I want to ask is... can we start calling white people with dreads trans-hair now?

[Ksandra]

I still don't understand how a race can own a style of hair. What is the equivalent for the other races? What can black people not culturally appropriate because it hurts the feelings of the whiteys?

I don't think anyone in this thread has argued that it's cultural appropriation.

At least for me, the reason I posted was to say that it is NOT cultural appropriation, but is still is rooted in racism and a problem to deny them of it based on how super important it is to their culture.

And as this thread is proving, rooted in complete ignorance of what it's like to deal with black hair.

[thetruepandagod]

So unless you can prove that there aren't black people who feel that way, then I don't know what was the problem with that bolded part.

I can find black people who feel any sort of way, what even is this anecdotal article bullshit.

And I'm not touching on the Jim crow complaint unless you have a solid counter as to why it's ok to tell them to "just work elsewhere if they don't want to wear white hairstyles."

This isn't any different from telling an extremely swarthy Persian or Italian to go find another place to work if they don't feel like adhering to the strict clean shaven policy that most offices have even though it may mean them having to shave during their lunchbreaks. Nor is it any different from telling the long haired white guy to go work at an organic co-op instead if he refuses to follow the expected workplace grooming.

If this was about afro's then just maybe there might be something to talk about, but since only the rare jew can grow a fro I doubt it comes up in your appropriation circles very often. Dreads are a choice, they are disgusting, and any workplace that wants to should be able to discriminate against hiring people with them if they so choose to. I mean fucking shit m8 even during the huge black panther black is beautiful movement there was nary a dread in sight on man or woman.

Spoiler: show

[Salodin]

Dreads have a stigma of being unkempt, even if not all dreads are created equal. I'm sorry you lost the genetic lottery, but deal with your hair wtf why is this a conversation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Ksandra]

I am going to be a broken record and say, please. If you are even a little bit interested in see what the fuck I've been talking about, check out this documentary:

Hell, look at the trailer to get an idea of what it's talking about. Chris Rock's daughter as a little girl came home and asked him why she doesn't have good hair. And there is nothing odd about her hair when it comes to black people hair. But it is not "good hair" because it is not white people hair. She is not unique in feeling that way. In order for to achieve "good hair" for the vast majority of black little girls requires severe chemicals and intensive straightening. And a vast majority of little white girls just have to comb their hair for ten minutes. That is how they get to be raised.

Black girls/women everywhere are putting bad shit into their hair just to conform to the idea of what makes good hair. Which is white people hair.

How can people in this thread not see that as a form of racism? That they cannot embrace their natural hair because it's not white people hair? I mean really?


Are you guys so so afraid to admit that it might be racist to deny them jobs for their hairstyle? Why?

[thetruepandagod]

I am going to be a broken record and say, please. If you are even a little bit interested in see what the fuck I've been talking about, check out this documentary:



Hell, look at the trailer to get an idea of what it's talking about. Chris Rock's daughter as a little girl came home and asked him why she doesn't have good hair. And there is nothing odd about her hair when it comes to black people hair. But it is not "good hair" because it is not white people hair. She is not unique in feeling that way. In order for to achieve "good hair" for the vast majority of black little girls requires severe chemicals and intensive straightening. And a vast majority of little white girls just have to comb their hair for ten minutes. That is how they get to be raised.

Black girls/women everywhere are putting bad shit into their hair just to conform to the idea of what makes good hair. Which is white people hair.

How can people in this thread not see that as a form of racism? That they cannot embrace their natural hair because it's not white people hair? I mean really?


Are you guys so so afraid to admit that it might be racist to deny them jobs for their hairstyle? Why?

Ksan, jesus christ. Do you even look at what you type? I wouldn't be shocked at this point if you argued that clear skin is an unfair white beauty standard since black skin is on average more oily. I mean hell, all the fucking hairspray white women were putting into their hair in the 70's/80's harmed the entire world, not just their scalps with all those CFC's.

[Ksandra]

Ksan, jesus christ. Do you even look at what you type?

Do you?

your appropriation circles

I posted to say that it is NOT cultural appropriation,

I think the concept of cultural appropriation is dumb as shit.

[thetruepandagod]

FFS WOMAN THERE IS A BRADY BUNCH EPISODE WHERE JAN COMES HOME CRYING BECAUSE HER HAIR DOESNT LOOK LIKE FARRAH FAWCETT'S

[Ksandra]

FFS WOMAN THERE IS A BRADY BUNCH EPISODE WHERE JAN COMES HOME CRYING BECAUSE HER HAIR DOESNT LOOK LIKE FARRAH FAWCETT'S

Did she not get a job because her hair doesn't look like farrah fawcett's?


And shit, don't play that dumb game with me. I permed my hair in the 80s/90s because it was thin and limpy.


Still didn't take the kind of time and money and heart ache that those girls go through. And if I didn't do it, my hair wouldn't have been considered unkempt/gross, and it wouldn't effect my job prospects.